Hi forum

I would have liked to post this to a more specific area in the forum but sadly my rank prohibits me from doing so, so here will have to do

Due to some of my circumstances , actually doing DMT is problematic for me ,so this has lead to me developing a major interest in Endogenous DMT. I really would like to believe that , as many have theorized , one can release DMT naturally and intentionally through your pineal gland. It seems the major way to do this is through Transcendnetal meditation. Naturally released DMT has been an explanation for the trip like experiences people have when they eventually get meditation right. I hope there is truth to this. It is fact that DMT is in your brain along with other well known tryptamines but in small amounts , and its functions and systems are not know.

So has anyone in the forum had any luck with this ? if so ,do you have any recommendations ? Or just simply some extra info and opinions on this topic

careful what we label as fact. Personally I think the evidence is stacking up in favor of DMT and other tryptamines that may interact with newly discovered trace amine receptors....but it is theory at this time...not fact

I also think meditation is a great thing, but meditating simply to imitate psychedelic experiences seems strange to me. Why not meditate ON the psychedelic experience? Or meditate on what you get from the experience...like the after glow, peace of mind, oneness, happiness, etc... I don't know just seems like if you are going to waste meditation time trying to feel like you do when tripping then why not just trip...it is easier.

Personally I use meditation to develop a deep and relaxing calm about the world. Because of meditation practice I ame better able to stay centered even when I feel as though I have no body...most times!

I have felt like this for the last 5 years

Yes, many have theorized, but none have shown how the pineal would go about making DMT...this would make it rather hard to release it from the pineal either naturally or intentionally. Meditation may be a wonderful method of spiritual practice for you, but I highly doubt it will be at the same level of experience as a dmt journey.

It is a fact that unfounded speculation on endogenous DMT is not fact...

While I have not experienced this firsthand, I have read extensively about the subject in diverse esoteric sources (alchemy, kabbalah, ritual magick, indigenous shamanism, etc.). Many of those people whom throughout history have been visited by spontaneous, revelatory mystic episodes describe the experience in terms similar to those that can be read in the trip report section. Furthermore, many of them subsequently developed systems and techniques whereby they might not only re-gain access, but provide signposts that others seeking similar experiences might follow.
Very loosely defined, the consensus seems to be that through the manipulation of the physical body by way of ritual movement (think Gurdjieff), modification of ones' diet (tryptophan rich proteins), and particular meditative processes, access to non-consensus reality can be achieved.
Obviously, both the mystic as well as the psychedelic experiences are nothing if not subjective, so equating the two is a matter of personal perspective. For my part, I am training under a shaman that I have known long enough to trust. This is a man with history using psychedelic medicine in ritual context (including aya), and he assures me that he has journeyed to these vistas medicine free; he further assures me that this is also available to the diligent student.
I would recommend finding a teacher who understands what you are seeking and has firsthand knowledge of both sides of the spiritual coin, both mystic as well as psychedelic. Also, none of of this is an exact science (yet), so expect detours!

I should have phrased that better to be honest.It is fact that the tryptamines such as melatonin and serotonin are in your brain and those are explicable as well .that is fact right? But I've also read it as fact that DMT occurs in the brain naturally , not necessarily produced in the pineal . I thought site of prduction and purpose where the only mystery ,but i must have been mislead.Gonna have to do more research But thanx alot for the correction "This drug is found not only in many plants,[3] but also in trace amounts in the human body, where its natural function remains undetermined"-Wikipedia . but i supose a user made sites cant always be trusted.

Also meditation isn't a case of one or the other, I agree with the other benefits and would also use it only for that but if you could use it for on demand DMT production . . . i mean c'mon, who wouldn't ?
And its not that easy just to do DMT ,like i said ,due to my situation. but i still will.

And @The plaid , thats really interesting man ,your lucky to have a shaman at your disposal , wish i did. good luck ! Keep us ,and specifically me , updated on your progress

I'm starting to read "DMT , the spirit molecule " today so hopefully that will give some insight into this topic.

And even if its not fact ,I think its worth trying , and if i don't get there ,then the other benefits of meditation will be reaped .

Endoegenous DMT does not occur in the brain, but does occur in various places elsewhere in the human body. Dr Rick Strassman, who conducted the only FDA-approved study on DMT in the United States(1995) since it has been illegal, hypothesized that since the correct substrates as well as enzymes necessary to create DMT occur in the pineal gland, this is a likely place for it to be assembled (synthesized).
I find it interesting that DMT is not found in the brain, but in other parts of the body. As as a nexian (whose name I cannot remember, sorry!) has already hypothesized, it may be stored elsewhere in miniscule amounts as an available store which can be rushed to the brain from various other parts of the body when necessary ( i.e. death).
Continuing with this hypothesis, if it is indeed true that it is stored outside of the brain for this reason, a) it is likely that DMT isn't found in the brain or else we would all be tripping (although it occurs in the body in miniscule amounts), and b)endogenous DMT-mediated nonordinary states of consciousness seem quite possible through manipulation of diet (to increase DMT stores throughout the body) and manipulation of stress on the body- yoga, bloodletting etc (to cause the DMT to be rushed to the brain). Meditation seems to be a poor scenario for endogenous DMT floods because the general consensus is that stress would be the main factor in creating such an experience (all hypothetical) and meditation by definition is not stressful.


Endogenous

Created within the human metabolism. Endo- within, Genous- genes.

Strassman, Rick, M.D. DMT:The spirit molecule. Park Street Press, Rochester Vermont. 2001.

Well that makes it a bit more likely in my opinion, because it is much easier to make external physical factors effect the body,rather than the brain

But I dont really agree that it being in our brain naturally would make us trip . . . it would have to be in large amounts i think. If other neurotransmitters were increased substantially we would notice a large change , but they are there all day and dont show the same effects as in large doses and DMT is very similar to some neuro transmitters. Although this is also just speculation

Did you enjoy the book?

what are your circumstances that you can't do dmt? Perhaps there is a way.

If you can't do dmt, I have heard one of the strongest psychedelic trips you can have is in a sensory deprivation tank. If you can't do any tryptamine psychedelic, I'd say take silene capensis, and/or weed and go in an isolation tank for a few hours. Some seem to believe that the sensory deprivation tank will result in release of psychedelic neurotransmissions.

Interesting topic you've started here... but it is vast. here is some of my wikipedia informed speculation:

Firstly, I understand there is no sound scientific explanation for why moles with serotonin activity result in a psychedelic experience. In fact, most serotonin in the body is in the gut and controls how quickly you pass food. It also has a strong effect on blood clotting and physical pain. Some plants or animals with spines/stings could hypothetically produce serotonin or mimics to increase their sting. Or these chems could be in seeds to promote herbivores passing the seeds before being totally digested (ever wonder why fruit can cause diareahha? possibly the high serotonin levels in many fruits). Insect neurochemistry is also very different and may be a bigger "concern" to plants than how a large mammal would react. It is possible that endogenous DMT has a physical role in humans totally unrelated to neurochemistry.

That being said, whatever does cause a phychedelic experience may be stimulated by meditation... I don't think there will ever be any definitive proof of this. Ultimately meditation is a very healthy thing to do, bringing the bodies rythms into phase and generally relaxing any underlying tension in the body/mind. I would discourage anything resembling obsession with reproducing exactly someone elses experience you have read about. Find your own experience to enjoy. If you cannot get your hands on a certain substance... there is surely something else in your life that you can appreciate more than the desire to smoke something you can't access. Just my 2 cents...

ouro

Please note there is no preparation/administration subforum entitled "bloodletting."

1 : Well it's not that I can't do it , its just that if i do it will be in an undesirable,negative light ,and I would like something like DMT to only have good vibes and contentment attached to it, but its unlikely that I could make that situation. So I will probably end up doing it anyway, but the reasons are; that I got caught for weed when I was 16 ,and my parents really didnt take that well ,AT ALL , so them knowing i'm doing this drug, specially one they've never heard of ,don't understand, is a very dodgy looking crystal ,and is produced in a backyard lab setup would make them all the more unhappy. I still live with them BTW ,thats what makes it tough,and i dont want to cause family issues,so it will have to be covert.So that makes weed a bit less likely too
But I have been looking into legal options ,as thelegality factor is their biggest concern ,and i've found that Pyote is legal in my country ,as well as salvia divinorum.so i'm trying to track those down. And is a sensory depravation tank the same as a floatation tank? if so then i have been looking into that . . . And silene capensis grows naturally here in South Africa!! which is awesome . and its legal ,so that may be an option

2 : It is a vast topic indeed ,thats why i need some collective wisdom on it . . .One way I've thought of proving this ,is to monitor people who say they have Psychedelic experiences through Transcendental meditation, whilst they are doing it ,EG pineal activity and Dmt levels , if thats even possible, i dont know, but even if DMT is not the cause then the benefits of those experiences are desirable. It is agreed that overlooking simpler benefits of meditation in desperation of a trip would be wasteful and stupid .

3 : Yeah ,someone really should post a blood letting tek , ha ha . . .

I've only done DMT once but ever since its taste and smell haunts me,
sometimes when I'm in the right moment for it, just really in love with anything
sober or stoned I get a huge whiff of it at the back of my throat

Yesterday I got really baked and I was sitting with my friends at their kitchen table just having a wonderful time
Felt like I was swimming in a void, buzzzing and luvving
Kinda wrapped up warm into yourself
a little wet
like inching into a bath wearing blankets
and mmmmmmm mannnnnnn was I tripping, that little whiff of it tasting it feeling it

YOU KNOW c:
Just love it and it will find you

oh, I understand your situation. Yes, a flotation tank is the same as a sensory deprivation tank. Silene capensis is a meditator's dream. Due to its total lack of body load and surprisingly powerful imaginative effects, it works excellent for meditation.

Thanks for that.

Keep in mind Trevor, Strassman did another study on rats where he detected DMT in the brain/pineal of rats, iirc, i think that study occurred sometime after these posts in this thread. Though we don't know how that translates to Humans, but it does seem more plausible that DMT is mainly elsewhere in the body compared to the brain/pineal.

It reminds me of what I read about the movie Dr. Strange. Something like this:

"I feel sorry for the people who believe this movie is about spiritual progression and meditation, and who don’t know you can see these when you take drugs."

It’s true I get insights on my trips that somehow I always knew, but I didn’t believe, didn’t grasp, didn’t embrace. Thus, you can figure out a lot of it yourself alone.

Although, I didn’t embrace them before the psychedelics. So, what was the point?

And that’s only for the insights. I’ve never seen anything like the things I see on my trips. Not in movies, animations, computer games, graphics. Not in my imagination. There was no other known way to see them.

I heard that there is a sect or movement of monks who spend one week in darkness to make their brain develop 5-MEO. Let’s say it works 100%.

1. I didn't feel anything when I took 5-MEO
2. I live my life without the desire to spend one week in darkness
3. I eat only what I see

I tried mushrooms, pharma, and meditation. The scientific result was that the meditation sucks compared to the other two.

What I liked and what worked well was the "self-hypnosis" with audio recordings. It’s great but it’s another story. Not comparable.