salutations readers

my girlfriend and i are arguing about spirituality and she (being influenced by christian radicals) is of the opinion that the bible denotes the use of plant drugs as witchcraft and sorcery, i say its shamanism which is not a specific agent of divination(which is what is apparently forbidden), ex. shamans are healers.. i argue that one can be a christian and shaman, am i an idiot? I feel like the use of plant drugs (specifically psychedelics) is of sacramental value (not getting high) and should be sampled by all atleast once in thier life to give us an equal perspective, put us all on the same brain wave length.

does anyone have anything to say?

Christianity
with
Shamanism?

specific bible verses would be awesome if anyone has one...

people have suggested links between early christianity and shamanism

there is john allegro´s book ´the sacred mushroom and the cross´, and also benny shanon´s article on entheogens which you can download in this link

some claims are quite outrageous, bound to be immediately rejected by christians, like when john allegro is claiming Jesus himself was actually a mushroom.. but there are other pretty well founded explanations..

then there is the whole deal of the ´Manna´ in the bible, which to me sounds a lot like the description of mushrooms.. just run a search on some online bible for ´manna´ and see how its described.. (something that comes with the morning dew, if you pick more than what you can eat it gets rotten and full of maggots, its sacred and precious, etc..)


then you get the urban ayahuasca religions such as Santo Daime which incorporate christianity with shamanism in their whole beliefs

the problem is, the bible as the catholics know is an edited, translated and retranslated, full of allegories, interpreted and misinterpreted document that definitely is not a faithful copy to all that was said and done, and cannot be taken literaly. I think if you look at the gnostic gospels, making the links is easier

but in any case, regardless of all of this, I think many psychedelic heads will realise that all religions have a true essence, but were distorted and misinterpreted as time passed due to ignorance or political reasons..

psychedelics can help you get in tune with this deeper reality that lies ´one little adjustment´ away from consensus reality.. Normal people who have never read anything of religion are seen under the influence of psychedelics to say things very similar to recognized catholic saints and descriptions of other ´mainstream´ religious experiences.. things like ´we are all one´, etc etc..

hope that helps.. I dont know how to formulate my words exactly but there´s for sure loads to say on this subject

thanks a bunch for the time going into this response

manna = mushroom, good ammunition there...
urban ayahuasca religions including sainto daime

bible is not concrete

i find that most people come to the same conclussion of spirituality and self after enduring the coming of age for many cultures (psychedelics)

ill find some direct places for manna and mention that at the next debate/meeting we get to have


p.s. i went by her house after work and the police were in her yard, as i passed they turned their lights on and began following me, twice now ive lucked out due to the cop being parked in the wrong direction and speedy back road driving. i think mayhap her parents got a restraining order... poop!

Just show her how little she really knows about her own religion! Ask her if she knows what the Gnostic gospels are? Why all the books empowering women were left out? What the Canonization is?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonization

reads 'bout dat shit nigga

A thought ive had recently...in my research ive read a lot about egyptians and how advanced thay night have been. my friends not myself but 2 of them saw strait up egyptian hallucinations of gods etc off of some dmt. Now not 2 say anything but y would people hallucinate this stuff from 4,000 years ago. My question is do people hallucinate any christian related stuff while under the influence. Im not trying to knock any religion but i myself like to think 4 myself and i have seen the power and absolute sacredness of psychedelics and im sorry that book saying that thats forbidden to me i reason is just ridiculous. all the things about gods love and all that shit that religion promises and doesnt deliver i was rewarded to by psychedelic experiences.

i agree its absurd to quit them or to not use them, i thought it was absurd that everyone wasnt using them when i first ate some manna!

The entheogenic experience is the essence of spirituality, religion are organizations designed by people with money to maintain power.

Suicybe did you even look at my suggestion?

You REALLY should!

Um, not to stick my nose where it doesn't belong, but it sounds like this is a serious disaster waiting to happen. No girl is worth going to jail over. Find one that can enjoy entheogens with you, not one you have to dodge the cops to see and then argue with her about you being a witch/sorcerer.

I may get some slack for this but I personally am very against radicals of ANY religion. They distort the few truths that any religion has to offer for their own goals and then attempt to force these distorted views on others.

Its like you took that out of my head, and pasted it onto the forum.

it turns out, there was a loose bull (bovine) running rampant in her neighboors yard (we talked later about it) and they were the first to arrive, no one i know stayed to watch the bull so i dont know what happened from there, no jail man no jail...

shes starting to turn and examine whats been fed to her, so its a start...

im waiting to go to hyperspace!

He's been telling me about this crazy girl forever man! He thinks he can save her from the dark side! I keep telling him!

Coatl has the approach of someone of logic, i have the approach of never being apart from her. i will save her, she may blow my mind with the psychedelic experience i know we will share.

god gave me mushrooms,
i gave them to everyone i knew,
everyone i knew knows,
god gave them mushrooms.

until weve all eatin the mushroom we wont be on the same brain wave length, so its only fair to accept the obstacles and work on them.

Careful my friend. I like you and don't want to see you go down a bad path.

It sounds like quite the co-dependant relationship, but I am no shrink and don' know the situation. Careful whom you give what to, the more people that know, the more likely problems will arise from it.

You give the wrong person some mushies and the next thing you know, men with shiny shoes and a star on their shirt will be knocking at your door. Just be careful.

Oh, and believe me when I tell you that you cannot save her...She has to do that on her own... Just like Christians or Jehovah Witnesses who show up at my door trying to "save" me. They can't do much of anything for me unless I want to be "saved". Not the best analogy.

I've tried too many times myself to be some girls savior and been bitten so hard in the ass that I still have scars from the teeth! I know my words will fall of deaf ears if you are anything like I was when I was a little younger, but I still had to try.

The very best of luck with your relationship!

im not going to give anyone anything they dont want,
there will be no inducing of salvation by me, only trying to urge the possiblity that it could be salvation and its kinda dumb to pass by the opportunity because you heard it wasnt worth it from someone who is obviously biased upon the subject.
when the time comes again
and people who seek the mushroom
will be sustained

p.s. i sit everyone i give it too, atleast the first time.

maybe dmt would be better to spread the psychedelic, due to the fact they wont have much time to complain until its over, and they probably wont get very far even if they tried...

what about breaking the head open with smoking dmt, vs atleast and 1/8 of shrooms or a whole brigdessi

pm me about getting bitten in the ass, im constantly getting nibbled upon, but its just been nibbles...

im not pressing this upon her either, im just defending it and trying to further my logic and understanding

He can't hear you, he's got a little bit of stupid stuck in his ears.

She thinks she can save him and make him stop believeing in the evil plants and love Jesus... and he thinks he can remove 17 years of brianwashing and turn her on to entheogens...

I think they are both just stupid but I suppose love is stupid, hell he wouldn't even listen to the vine goddess... In suicybe's last Ayahuasca dream (which was very intense) the experience basically told him to let go of all desire (that's kinda what ego death is) but he was not able to bring that back with him.

she stayed with me until both life and love were finally stripped from me, i cant tell which fell first, both times ive seen them leave they dispersed equally...

also not trying to squelch jesus or christianity, just offer new views and opinions

thats why i go to bible study and debate

I'm just playin' Devil's advocate.

King James Bible
And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. Genesis 1:30

tell her to look that one up and you can prove it to her.