1.) What are the ph's I should be looking for?

2.) What is a good ratio of acidified solution to MHRB?

3.) What is a good ratio of Naptha to MHRB?

4.) Is there any way to guestimate/calculate the amount of solution of one ph needed to bring a different amount of solution of a different ph to a desired ph?

5.) How long does the baseified solution need to "wait" before naptha is added?

Here:
http://forums.mycotopia....25864-vovin-dmt-pdf.html

There are countless numbers of other teks out there that you can read!!

WS

Thanks for a link to a .pdf that I can't read because I'm not a member of the forum.
Also some of the info I am asking about I have not seen in any of the numerous teks I have read.
Specificly #4 in most of the Teks I have seen they indicate a number of grams of lye per gram of mhrb, the problem being not everyone uses lye, so basing measurements off of that would just be silly.


*attention mods* If this thread needs to be merged with "Extraction Help" please do so, I just thought this would generate a little more attention.

This depends on the plant material being extracted and what solvents are used. Normally the acid portion of an A/B extraction is done at pH 3-4. The base portion of the A/B extraction varies a lot depending on the alkaloid being extract and the non-polar solvent used. For example, when using DCM to extract psilocin, the pH should be 8-9 and no higher because psilocin (4-HO-DMT) will be destroyed at higher pH ranges. The same is true for bufotenine (5-HO-DMT), but bufotenine is a little tougher than psilocin and can withstand higher pH ranges for longer periods of time, but even so, it’s best not to go over pH 11 for very long.

An important thing to consider is the pKa of an alkaloid when extracting it. Here are the pKa’s of some DMT type alkaloids:

8.68 - DMT (dimethyltryptamine)
9.67 - 5-HO-DMT (bufotenine)
8.47 - 4-HO-DMT (psilocin)

The pKa is the point at which 50% of the alkaloid is in freebase form in water (or a mix of water and ethanol usually). To extract efficiently, you need to extract at a pH that is equal to or greater than the pKa of the alkaloid. Some people recommend 2 pH points higher than the pKa. However with psilocin that would mean pH 10.47 which can destroy psilocin. With bufotenine that would mean pH 11.67 which can destroy bufotenine. With DMT that would mean pH 10.68 which is safe for DMT.

When extracting at 1 pH point higher than the pKa of an alkaloid, 90% of the alkaloid is in freebase form in the water layer. At two pH points higher than the pKa, 99% of the alkaloid is in freebase form in the water layer. However, once the alkaloid is shaken with the non-polar solvent, this puts the percentages out of whack in favor of more freebase alkaloids than what the pKa dictates, because as you shake the non-polar solvent and the water layers together, most of the freebase alkaloids leave the water and go into the non-polar solvent, but just how much more highly depends on the non-polar solvent being used. A solvent can only hold X amount of alkaloids. Some solvents are better than others. For example, DCM can hold many times more DMT than naphtha can. DCM can hold tons of bufotenine and naphtha can not hold any at all.

Naphtha is an extremely poor solvent. So when people extract DMT with naphtha, they use all sorts of tricks to make the DMT more soluble in the naphtha. People often use massive amounts of sodium hydroxide (a very dangerous base) bringing the pH of the water to pH 13 or higher (which is very dangerous) to force the DMT into the naphtha. Another trick that is used is to heat the naphtha (which is also very dangerous because naphtha is highly flammable). Warm naphtha holds more DMT than cold naphtha. But even cold DCM can hold many times more DMT than warm naphtha can.


This depends on the solvent used and the acid used. For example, DMT hydrochloride is not very soluble in dilute hydrochloric acid, but DMT citrate is very soluble in dilute citric acid. So an acidified solution with citric acid holds more DMT than an acidified solution with hydrochloric acid. Another example is that DMT acetate is soluble in DCM, but DCM hydrochloride is not. There is no simple answer to this complex question.

No such data is documented as far as I know and most of the techs are just based on guesses.



This is documented somewhere, but I can’t recall where. I know that you can extract with much less DCM than naphtha.



This is a complex question and depends on many factors. You need to know the strength of all acids and bases present, and their effectiveness in the solvents used. It can be calculated, but few people calculate it, because the plant matter makes the equation very difficult. Most people just slowly add one to the other and check the pH as they add it.



Again, naphtha is a very poor solvent. You don’t need to wait for anything unless you use sodium hydroxide. Many people add base while the non-polar solvent is present. When using a base like sodium carbonate, no heat is formed so you never need to wait at all. People who use a ton of sodium hydroxide (which is very dangerous) need to wait for the liquid to cool down. Actually the heat produced from adding too much sodium hydroxide to the water can cause the water to boil. This is both extremely dangerous and counterproductive because the boiling water will cause the freebased DMT to vaporize away and can cause sodium hydroxide to splash all over the place, getting into your eyes and causing permanent eye damage, severe chemical burns on the skin, etc. I don’t know why people insist on using sodium hydroxide when other safer options are available.

Most of the DMT extraction techs are unfortunately based on sodium hydroxide and naphtha. The same techs are much safer and more productive when sodium hydroxide is replaced with sodium carbonate, and naphtha is replaced with DCM. Sodium carbonate is far safer than sodium hydroxide, and is strong enough to freebase DMT to over 99%. DCM can hold far more DMT than naphtha can, so less is needed. It is also NOT flammable, while naphtha is. When using DCM, no special tricks are needed to get the DMT to go into the DCM. You don’t need to heat the DCM, you don’t need to add tons of base, etc.

To give you an idea of just how much safer sodium carbonate is compared with sodium hydroxide, a saturated solution of sodium carbonate left on the hand for a minute will cause irritation and possible redness. A saturated solution of sodium hydroxide left on the hand for a minute will cause extreme pain, and actually eat into your skin and cause the water in your skin to boil. It is one of the most painful chemical burns there is.

If you want to see just what type of horrifying burns you can get from getting sodium hydroxide on your skin take a look at this page: http://www.burnsurgery.o...s/initial_mgmt/sec_6.htm

Thanks Ron, sorry for not giving a more detailed breif of the extraction. SWIM is using MHRB, Vinegar, Calcium Hydroxide and Naptha, the Calcium Hydroxide tested at 13 in a highly saturated solution probably 5:1 Water to Calcium, the Vinegar tested at 2, straight vinegar. SWIM went ahead and got a set of the Phydrion papers instead of the digital sensor and had some fun finding out the ph of different things around the house, mountain dew weighs in at 3!

SWIM would be interested in trying DCM or even better Choloroform but SWIM would need to scout some suppliers first and Naptha was so easy to find Swim thought it would do for the first time around.

Is SWIM at risk for the same chemical burns when working with calcium hydroxide?
also does Calcium Hydroxide etch glass? should SWIM be using plastic wear?

hey 69ron, does DCM.... edit: nvm I found your posts in the sodium carbonate thread. DCM does sound pretty good

also since it is a plastic solvent I take it using #2 HDPE jugs would be out of the question?

DCM won't dissolve HDPE. HDPE is pretty resistant to DCM at room temperature. At 20°C (68°F), HDPE shows little or no damage after 30 days of constant exposure to DCM. At 50°C (122°F), after 7 days DCM may cause swelling and lead to permeation losses. So if you use DCM in HDPE keep it at room temperature and don't leave it in the container for too long. Eventually the DCM starts leaking through the HDPE and the HDPE absorbs it like a sponge and swells up. DCM doesn’t dissolve it though. The same thing happens with naphtha, heptane, xylene, and most other similar solvents stored in HDPE. The same thing also happens to rubber stoppers.

It’s better to use glass or metal containers because they are resistant to nearly everything.

Where soes one get 2 or 3% vinegar...all I could find is 5% acidity....
The Mars' tek calls for a very diluted 5% viegar solution for extracting...that can't be a 2-3 ph, can it? AFOAF needs to maximized yield by correct ph's this time..
Thankx,
Peace

Edit...apparently so...2.4 ph...straight 5%..
Peace