I should be getting new bark this week. I want to try an A/B using the herbal percolator. Has anybody used the herbal percolator for this yet? I figured that this system plus some defatting would make for some super clean spice. So if anybody has done this before I was wondering if the ratios were the same as with caapi and if I can use HCl if I am using hdpe plastic. Thx

OK well I looked all through the extraction and advanced chem forums and found that nobody has tried using THP for the acid step of a simple A/B extraction. I guess I'll just have to wait and try myself. I will be sure to post my results, but I have one Q that needs an A. Whats a common yeild on an A/B? I remember they tended to be smaller but what do you guys usually get?

SWIM read up on A/B and apparently cold or warm water extractions are 50-75% less potent than their boil counterparts when consumed as in mimosa-huasca.

SWIM has not done an A/B with lye so he can't say any more than that though.

My last A/B extraction yielded 1% exactly. I did three overnight heated (just to simmering temperature) acid extractions using 5% acetic acid.

well using this tek i was more thinking about the purity rather than the yeild. i just mentioned the possibility of THP boosting the yeild because i read it somewhere. thanks for the input. my mhrb got here and already started on 50g so i will let you guys know how it goes. i have it simmering down to a workable amount now. two questions. given that i ran 2 gallons vinegar water thru, how much should i evap my tea down to before i procede? also, is xylene good for defatting? i was thinking that since its such a wide range solvent it would be ideal, but then got to wondering if it might pick up the acetate with all the plant oils.

also, what if boiling gar water was ran thru vs warm or cold?

SWIM tried steeping MHRB and after several steeps when they produced brew with almost no color he boiled the MHRB and the brew had a lot of color (and gunk)

SWIM didn't end up extracting or testing either brews (at least not properly) so this is only a qualitative observation and could be irrelevant to the active dissolved, nonetheless let it be known that steeping with near-boiling water (or THPing) is much different than simmering/boiling.

Good to know. Like I said, purity is my main goal on this batch. I take it from your silence towards my other questions that xylene is fine to use for defatting and as long as my brew doesn't caramalize there should be no loss of actives? Also, would the gelatin trick from the ayahuasca forum be helpful for the purity? Does that not suck up any spice?

"I was wondering if the ratios were the same as with caapi and if I can use HCl if I am using hdpe plastic. "

hdpe is hcl safe

Good. I figured it was but had to make sure. Do you think it might extract better than gar seeing as how it breks stuff down?
What about the egg white or jello tricks I read about on the aya forum? Are those ok ideas to use on extractions? Like I said, I am going for the purest spice ican get. I already plan on defatting in the acid phase and once the spice is in my solvent. Overkill? Maybe, but I plan on doing a fumarate conversion and going strassman with this batch. I cant have it pure enough.

There's no need for gelatin or egg whites as there's no fats/tannins worth speaking of to remove that way. The acid defat is already complete overkill for mhrb, I don't even know what to call a second defat. Also, unless you have analytical machinery to verify the purity of your spice, I would seriously reconsider "going strassman" (I can't even tell you how brash that language makes you sound) on anything extracted in your kitchen. Obviously it's your body and your choice to do as you will, I just ask that if you are 100% dead-set on doing this, you have someone else to administer your dose and you take all of the proper precautions. Personally, I would very hesitant to inject something (or have something injected) into my body, even if its purity was verified.

Thanks for the concern but i've been there and done that. I read up on it pretty extensively before hand and weighed the risks. It wasn't my firsf fime IV and given the nasty and evil drugs I used to take this way, honestly, I would rather it be home made spice. Any of the meth or herion I used to do are definately way more dangerous. I AM NOT recommending this path to anybody, but I will say, for me at least, it has the most consistent effects. Its easily measured and always results in a breakthrough in my experience, though I have heard it is not so positive an experience for everyone. Yet again, I DO NOT RECOMMEND OTHERS TRY THIS

THIS JUST IN - THP WORKS WONDERS FOR A/B EXTRACTION! I just weighed up the contents of the first two pulls out of my 50g A/B-THP MHRB extraction. First of all it is perfect white, that being my goal, and secondly the first two pulls netted me ~.5g, the next 3 are a beautiful snowglobe in the freezer. Thats >1% yield guys. TRY THIS OUT. You won't be dissapointed. I'm off to bed, more in the morning.

???

Check the forums over at Ayahuasca.com for tons of reports on successful and high-yield MHRB extractions using THP. People have been doing this for years. It's a common way of separating alkaloids from plant material. The only difference is that they're not basifying to get crystals, but drinking the reduced liquid with a MAOI. The reason THP/CWE is used for aya is that it seems to pull less tannins and oils than hot water extractions. But for an A/B on MHRB we don't care so much about that, especially if a defat is performed during the acid phase and a sufficiently selective solvent (i.e, heptane not xylene) is used. The whole point of A/B is that tannins and other non-alkaloid materials are left behind in the process.

One thing to keep in mind with a THP CWE is that it requires lots of water to get all the good stuff out, thus lots of energy is needed to reduce it to a workable volume. IMHO, CWE is not a very efficient way to get to the final product if you're looking for crystals from MHRB. I'd suggest a regular Vovin-style A/B with a defat if you think it's necessary. I'd wager that, for the acid phase, a flask on a hotplate/stirrer would beat THP for both energy efficiency and yield any day.

I also feel the need to echo the concerns others have voiced over your Strassman comments and advise against any IV use of extracted DMT. Your plan seems extremely reckless, but I guess it's your ass. When you do a standard extraction on MHRB, you'll never have pure N,N-DMT at the end. The crystals you get are a mixture of alkaloids, at best. Probably lots of other crap too. Please keep in mind that Strassman used professionally laboratory synthesized materials for his experiments, not questionably pure materials pulled from random internet-sourced plants containing literally thousands of chemicals that have never been studied in humans. Please be smart and safe so our community is not exposed to unnecessary scrutiny if/when you end up in the ER.

-JM

Good to know!

SWIM's test showed that cactus didn't need to be boiled to extract the mescaline.
Now it seems that MHRB is the same.
The only thing SWIM boils for extraction is whole rue seeds. (easy filtering, same yields)

Was cold, warm or hot water used in THP?

Can I just say that I take full responsibility for MY actions. Thats why they are my actions and not those of the community. Also, I have IV'd dmt before several times that was less than pure with NO MORE side effects than elevated heart rate and bp. All of this condescending talk seems rather judgmental. You all say its my body then state how reckless I am and how I will hurt myself when there are several reports all over of people taking this route. BESIDES ALL OF THAT THIS WAS NOT THE POINT OF THIS POST. I wanted to see if the thp worked well for extraction and since it is givin me over 1% I'd say it did the job better than I expected. In answer to your question q21 it was cold water I ran through. Just slightly under room temperature. I ran it through in font of the window unit so it was probably around 69º F. Any other questions on the PROCESS I used are welcome. Please stop worrying about the administration as I will be here to post for a long time and am sure that will come up again

ok let me mention a few things. First of all, when you say "You all", thats not a good way of starting a criticism to others opinions because we are all unique individuals who gave you unique answers, dont turn this into a 'me vs you all' problem because its not (and AFAIK there was only one person saying how you are reckless and how you will hurt yourself).

Again, I do not see 'all this condescending talk' in other posts. There was a link I showed to you about safety tips, and there was a very down to earth reply from snozz saying how HE feels and how HE would do, and kindly asking you to reconsider. Nothing condescending about that, just honest concerns. Jmaxton used the word reckless but he also said SEEMS, he didnt say it is. He had also answered about your original topic and was quit reasonable in his answer. If you still dont agree with how he said it, you can be calm and tell him what it was about his answer that bothered, but no need to get offended in any way.

As for it not being the point of the thread, forgive us but you have to understand that this is only natural to happen, for threads to go off topic specially if its to change to a subject that can be very important.

You say you take responsibility for YOUR actions but did you consider the possibility that if something happens to you while injecting dmt (get hurt, die, cops/media find out, whatever), then the whole community can get on the spotlight and it might create problems for us all? So do you really think its unreasonable that others are concerned? Maybe you havent had a problem so far, but this is no guarantee that you wont have in the future, and specially, this is no guarantee that someone else wont have a problem. You are just a name on a screen as far as we know, and behind this or another name on a screen, there may be someone acting reckless and we would like to prevent this. Just look at all our Health and Safety section and how much we do care for safety.

Another thing you have to think about is the possible consequences to your posts. You are not just communicating to a wall, there are all sorts of people reading which you can have an influence on. When you talk about IVing as if its the simplest thing in the world, and say you have no problems at all, without any disclaimer, you are also passing an implicit message for others that it is OK for all others to IV their kitchen extracted products (without a sitter, apparently, or at least no mention of it). What if someone else that doesnt know as well, or doesnt have as much luck as you, or had a more impure product and has a very bad reaction, or hurts themselves without a sitter? Again, not only will it be horrible for this person and family (and you being co-responsible in a way), but also as I said before, it might hurt the whole community. Now, if thats not the message you want to pass, you should be explicit about it and be very clear about it.

Now another thing I want to comment on is your attitude. Maybe im misinterpreting but you seem quite confrontational in your tone, and also not very humble. For example when I pointed out the link about IV, you answered with "been there done that", which carries this "yeah yeah whatever I know better" kind of message behind it. Also using expressions such as "going strassman" are quite a weird way of expressing yourself, as well as this "me vs them" kind of arguments. Nobody is (or should be) here to pick a fight, its all intended as very honest constructive criticism, so lay off your guard and lets start talking from fellow human beings to human beings (or Nexians to Nexians ) , always hoping for the best for all. Once again, pardon for the off topic but I feel it was very necessary

Sorry bout the unclearness of that post. I was pretty irritated with a couple of posts an directed my retort to the whole or the community. That was wrong for me to do. I did in an earlier post recommend that nobody else try IVing but I suppose it bears repeating. I DO NOT RECOMEND THAT ANYONE IV DMT. THE FACT THAT I HAVE DONE SO AND GOTTEN AWAY WITH IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT ANYBODY ELSE WILL GET THAT LUCKY. THERE ARE ANY NUMBER OF LETHAL SITUATIONS THAT COULD ARRISE FROM DOING SO.

I suppose that it was crazy for me to try in the first place, and I am sorry to those who expressed concern for me that I told, basically, to keep to themselves. This is a community and everyone is entitled to their opinion. My ideas are no better than yours.

That all being said can we agree to discuss this in another location? I just wanted this to be a discussion on using THP as an extraction tool, and perhaps this was not the place to bring up the IV subject. Once again, to those it may concern, I am sorry.

Now specifically to you endless. I realize now that clarity on my part is of paramount importance. For instance, I did not mean 'been there...' like you interpretted. What was meant was that I had done this method of administration before and had read many different reports and words of advice. I took the risk and came out ok, and i understand everyone might not. I meant no offense and honestly never do. I do however misword what I am trying to say and it comes out wrong. Sorry, it seams to be one of my many defects.

As far as what really upset me is the fact I meant for this to be about that which is in the title. I know I brought along the change of subject myself and have noone else to blame for it. I did not mean to be an ass. I merely wanted the focus shifted back to the original point. snozz and jm i'm truly sorry. I respect both of you greatly, have used your advice on many other subjects, and shouldn't have disregarded it in this instance. I know you were just looking out for the whole community.