I'm pretty sure there are a lot of frustrated kids in school that think Math is bullshit that confuses them. The greatest scam of all time.

"I don't see it as a calculus textbook with utility and purpose for those who study it. I see it as the Bible, bullshit that confuses you and makes you think there is divinity where there is none. The greatest scam of all time."

In that case the bible becomes one of your own personal archetypes, and you are then projecting that archetype onto DMT. The bible doesnt confuse people or make them think there is divinity where there is none..the bible actaully doesnt DO anything other than exist. People read it and what transpires in the mind of that person afterwords in simply the doing of they're OWN PSYCHE. I read the bible as a kid. Didn't confuse me or make me think there was divinity where there is none. Nope. I just though it was a story book I never could really jive with.

Instead of looking inward and identifying the projections, you would rather look outside and continue to see your own archetypes all around you. All that leads to is finding that same archetype(that is really a part of you you are projecting) in other aspects of life..if not DMT it will simply pop up as some other aspect of life since you have chosen not to deal with it as an internal conflict..to you, it will always be something other than YOU. The feedback loop is then reinforced.

Noone is saying smoke more DMT. Id say definatily dont smoke any more DMT. But stop projecting persoal archetypes into the exterior world in order to not take some responcibility for your own experiences. I have seen this alot in people. I had one friend who was quite adament that thebad things that happend to him were never ever his fault..they were always based on exterior circumstances..it wasnt until he one day realized that he was projecting all of this into the world, and so others were reflecting it back ono him that he was able to come to the conclusion that ALL of his problems were based on his appraoch to life in general. At this point in life, it was ALL about his projections and really had nothing to do with anything exterior to him.

Hey guys, its' cool. I'm done posting. It's like arguing religion. I don't accept your beliefs, you don't accept mine. I relegate DMT to a kind of masturbation with harmful side effects and you sanctify it as mysterious and elegant.

I am free of it. Liberation never felt so good. Peace.

Joebono good you're feeling better.
We respect your choice and opinions.
It's best to listen to your inner balance in such situation. You know better what's good for you .
You've always describe your experiences with Dmt as crazy (from the psychiatric perspective).
All the best, Dude.

dmt is so ridiculous and no one can ever fully explain what is going on its just another paradox set up to lure people in and make them sound insane
like how some people talk about fairies in hyperspace????????????

why glorify something you cant even comprehend 1% of

I dont think anyone here really knows what theyre getting themselves into they just sit in awe at the colors and feelings and assign the one thing missing from their lives; divinity

Then what do you do about it ?
How do you live the experience if you choose ever to experience it ?
Anyway what's life is about ?
Do we really know ???

(I hope you won't go away. I immensely enjoy and appreciate your perspective.)

Let's get one thing straight, though.

If DMT allows one to realize in what way *exactly* psychedelics are a dupe, then this is some really serious advancement in our understanding of reality.

I unfortunately cannot say for sure - based on what joebono wrote alone - that it is a dupe. But I would be VERY grateful if I could. Psychedelics are the most convincing reality benders I know of. Currently I'm addicted to them, even if I don't do them as often as I'd like to (once a year at most). But my mind is always on them. I see the possibilities as mind-boggling. I could not get rid of them, even if I wanted.

If psychedelics are really devil's play, then they are the most sophisticated ones for sure. And if we can - with their help? - realize how this ploy is played out, then this means there may be not much else that we can fall a victim to. I mean, the true psychedelic user (the warrior archetype) is already beyond all the worldly wishes. He's not interested in fame or money. The only way the devil can get him (or her) is through some spiritual trap. And if DMT is such a trap, well... congratulations to the devil. That was a great ride.

I begin to appreciate joebono's newly found freedom.

What do you want to say. You either are in control of your life and everything just gives you experience or you are a victim of your circumstances.

Let me remind you of Bashar's words:

Circumstances don't matter, only state of being matters


Praise the believes.

So long

Mr_dmt

and I honestly think he will be BACK. Not right now, not in a few months but maybe this winter he returns

"dmt is so ridiculous and no one can ever fully explain what is going on its just another paradox set up to lure people in and make them sound insane
like how some people talk about fairies in hyperspace????????????"

Yeah, the thing is that that statement is about as valid as any other since you yourself dont KNOW if faeries do in fact exist or not(unless you have sources??)..so all anyone can do is speculate and it's best to just suspend you judgements. Otherwise you move into the realm of arrogance, and not well founded at that.

I find it humerous how people tend to get all worked up with the desire to tell people so matter of factly what the valitidy of such an ambiguous experience in the first place is.

Joe,

As someone who's followed your posts for a year, it's been hard not to see this coming. The only surprise is how long it's taken and the amount of anger in your denouncement. I for one am glad you're stopping; this is clearly not healthy for you. But I've got to say that you sound like a guy in the midst of a painful breakup. When love is good, we tend to put our lovers up on a pedestal, projecting all sorts of wonderful qualities which aid in affirming our feelings. Afterwards, we tear them down and magnify their faults. You seem like you're currently deep in the throes of the "all women are users and whores" phase. I hope with time you find some perspective and come to see the past two years as something more than a sham.

DMT can't supply enlightenment anymore than anything else; all it does is offer up to the user a radically alien perspective. What you do with that in the aftermath is strictly up to you. Just like traveling to India, falling in love, surviving a plane crash, etc. - these things alone won't transform who you are; they can, however, serve as catalysts toward growth and transformation. You can call it divinity or call it a con, but I choose to see it as a mirror. The experience is nothing more or less than that which I bring to the table. I am both the creator and passenger. It's me scrambled up and thrown back at me.

In any case, I've always enjoyed reading your lunatic rants. I'm sorry you're feeling somehow cheated, but I'm glad that you're moving on. I hope whatever you find to replace it with brings you a bit more contentment.

Joe

I remember on a previous thread of yours you mentioned you'd had a psychotic episode once when you were younger, on a different substance, so whatever your stated reasons its probably wise of you to steer clear of spice.



I'm not entirely sure what you mean here; do you mean you concocted a distinct and separate mental construction in order to provide an alternative way of seeing things?

It seems the view you're expressing is one in which dmt has the power and intelligence to both trick you and play with your mind to keep you using it - and yet it has absolutely no meaning. Either you think their is some intelligence behind this experience, and therefore has a meaning, purpose... certainly it must have a motive at the very least. Or it's meaningless; and there is no intelligence with the capacity to trick you.

On one hand you think of it as a drug with no purpose that has a chemical hook like nicotine, a simple mechanism to keep you using it. But this is no simple mechanism - it feels like complete immersion in a complete alternate reality, which appears to be populated by sentient beings. Seems complicated; a nuclear warhead to crack a peanut.

It may simply be a chemical key that alters perception enough to allow us to examine our own psyche - for even if it is ourselves inventing this most unusual experience, then the very least you can take from it is that it exists; that this is possible; that we can create such things. And what is it, how, does this happen?

I haven't ever heard anyone discuss this as an addictive substance, but then it is idiosyncratic and each of us develop our own relationship with it. As I know it the basic rule of addiction is this:

if you feel something is a problem then it is and you need to lay off.

I think it is important that there is this thread to discuss the possibility that spice is addictive, and that you document your own experience.

Personally, I no longer venture Within, my most memorable and meaningful journeys all highlighted the need to be focused on my reality, and not to be too enticed by the overwhelming and extraordinary nature of hyperspace; but early on in my journeys I was going Inside at every available opportunity - several times a week. I probably overdid it, but the time came when I just got to the end of the road, for the time being, and just stopped.



Mine did.

Hiya Joebono,

I don't have time to read the whole thread. I'm sorry to hear you're upset. I can understand your point of view, although I don't agree with your negative view of DMT. I wonder how you will think back to your experiences in the future, maybe you will not wish them away when you've had time to integrate and move your life forward to new things? And if DMT has driven you to sobriety, well, isn't that at least one good thing? It was for the dreamer. He now only journeys with entheogens very infrequently, every 6 months or so- only when he feels the call.

This isn't a defence of DMT though, I agree it's probably not for everyone.

Personally, I believe it's a medicine- spiritual and psychological- and thought it can be fun, it's probably not a good idea to use it as a regular plaything. I do suspect that some peeps on here take this stuff way too often. Like Strassman said (allegedly), many people take too many psychedelics and are just getting the same experiences over and over without integration or sufficient moderation.

If I can be honest, some of your reasoning sounded a bit negatively distorted. Have you read "Feeling Good" by the eminent cognitive behavioural psychologist David D.Burns MD? Amazing book. It helped me a lot. I hope you'll give it a go and won't be put off the suggestion just because we currently have some differing views on DMT. I can't think of anyone who wouldn't benefit from reading it- it's really amazing how much we warp reality through our own perceptions. Yoga makes me feel great too.

Good luck with the kitesurfing, sounds like great fun- be careful not to get caught in the wires, I hear that can be nasty!!! I'm sure this new chapter in your life will be a positive one

Do not waste your time and attempt to help this man for he is truly helpless. His posts here and throughout are more than enough evidence.


Good riddance.

Here's a great quote from an ayahuasca article that IMO can't be repeated enough around here,

So so true. I love it!

Thanks for sharing Joe, it's important for us to hear these kinds of testimonies. I personally have gone through many substances, and I've made a point to stop taking them when I found out that I was taking them only for pleasure. It sounds like you're going through something similar. And we do tend to disguise substance-related pleasure into something else. Alcohol as a social grease, MDMA as emotional opening, speed as productivity, nitrous as illumination, ketamine as intellectual ability, etc. The truth is they do have those uses, but the use is limited. They are limited tools. In the end, we are what counts. I firmly believe that substances should serve to enhance and benefit our reality, always. This is where the action is, this is what counts. If the drugs are hindering any part of your life, stop now. You're right.

One point that did catch my attention : You said you were taken on tours of your own personal hell. That sounds really, really awful. Was it not an opportunity to pay attention and gain this different perspective on things that went on in reality? In that sense, I agree with the question of integration. The experience of DMT itself is pretty worthless, but the reflexions it can trigger should be used to lead you in positive places in your life. Bad trips are ok. The DMT didn't have a bad trip, you did. Why? Think about it. What did you feel like? What did you see? Do not go back in unless you have something new to try, unless you have something new to bring, unless you have found in your real thoughts some new insight into the negative experience.

As someone has said, it's a mirror. It'll tell you straight up when you've got mustard on your cheek, but staring at the stain won't remove it. Go get a real world napkin. And if you don't have a stain, then why are you still looking? Go check out the real world ladies and maybe come back when you've had a meal or two

Lifeforms made primarily out of carbon and water, floating on a rock through void space, around a 24/7 nuclear explosion.
yea....that... makes sense?

1000s of pixels, fragments, and lines of millions of colors assembled into some form that we try to interpret.
yea....that... makes sense to do?

Joe, just relax brother, maybe sometimes things just shouldn't make sense.
The space we enter is infinite and open to all possibilities, but understand that we are the filter through which this energy is being processed.
From my experience, the learning has come after the peak. More like the peak is traveling to some destination within me and maybe that brings up some fear or strange evil thought forms.
But then traveling back, when your astral body returns to the physical body you can process from both ends of information.
It is always a lot clearer when I can maintain my pure ego transcended state for the peak.

Understand that we are still always connected to this space and DMT is not necessary to come to terms with this.
Just never forget all the positive feelings and experiences and cherish the future joy you are able to experience by being ALIVE.
Be Well Joe. I've always felt we operated on similar wavelengths, always around to chat. <3<3<3

lol, joe......... Doood, I understand your desire to stop. I support this decision. Enough is enough.

But joe really..... You said yourself you have NEVER EVER taken the time to integrate. Most everyone has told you at one time or another in one way or another that you must integrate.

You are about to find out first hand, You are not free of it. The liberation you feel is a defence built by your mind because you dont want to deal whith all that has happened.
you didnt want to go along with the program voluntarily. You needed to take breaks from time to time and integrate, you did not. You had many difficult experiences to include psychosis.

You are not free of it by a long shot. You'll see.

You must now heal. For someone who has been through what you have been through the healing process could very well be difficult. My guess is joe, that you have allot of hard work ahead of you.

We are here for you. weather you chose to use or not. we are here to guide and help you.

good luck joe

L&G