So I read that thread (here) that discussed oral dosages of both dmt and MAOIs. After seeing that the dose range of oral DMT is VERY wide I decided I want to try to collect as much information as I can about this in order to (try to) estimate the dosage well on my first try. I have limited spice left, 100mg, and that's all I'm gonna have for 2-3 weeks.

First - why does the dose range vary so much? is it a factor of metabolism, and if someone has a fast/good metabolism do they need more or less DMT?

Second - I have been trying to smoke spice and I am getting very little results from 25 mg. I know this is a low dose for smoking (wasn't trying to breakthrough) but still I barely had anything in the way of visuals. The oral range suggested in the thread above is 30-200mg. Can I expect that 30mg would be a waste for me considering that 25mg smoked properly all in one hit was very plain, almost nothing?

What would you recommend I start with orally? The max I could take is about 100mg.

And for a harmine/harmaline extract is 150mg about right?

IMO it got alot to do with metabolism and diet, tolerance to harmalas plays a part too.


If I remember correct your smoking tek could be improved.

You cant base your oral dosage on what your vaped dosage is, even less so when you dont know what that vaped dose is. Pharma takes a few tries to find ones sweet spot, you could get effects from say 50mg or maybe none at 100mg. If you do want to try this route, take 150mg of the harmine/harmaline you have with 50mg DMT, if say after an hour you arent where you want to be take another 50mg of the harmalas with say another 25-30mg DMT. If you still arent where you want to be, then vape the rest of the spice and make use of the harmalas.

I sugest you infuse what DMT is left over with some leaf/herb. 1:1 ratio, once dry load up your bong with say 40mg of the infused leaf hit it, wait a few minutes(like 10) then load up 80mg of the leaf/dmt infusion and hit it, close your eyes and smile



^^

Thanks. I'll consider this and probably start with 50, that will leave me 80 if I don't use any more from now until the harmalas arrive (I have 130, just was planning on vaping* another 30 before that but I guess I won't).

I did improve my smoking tek since that last post you probably read. I got a lot better at it when I got a torch lighter which enabled me to heat without inhaling, not run out of breath and thus get it all in one hit. However I do agree that I probably don't have it perfected.... maybe a GVG would help there, but I really need to stop spending money so I'm not getting it yet.

In addition to the wise advise that gammagore already gave you, I wanted to chime in on this one topic specifically. "Biological Metabolism" is the short & skinny to sum it up. The biological factor is really that everyone has different levels of MAO in their bodies. MAO's are a metabolizer, but not in the traditional sense of "metabolism" (i.e. Just because you have a high physical metabolism, does not mean you have a high or low level of MAO. They are exclusive of one another.) This is a scientifically proven fact, and it is believed to account for different levels of introversion / extroversion in our personalities, as well as play a large role in depressive or manic behavior.

So, what this means is that the dose you need to "zone in on" is the MAOI qty (not so much the qty of spice). This can be risky if you find that you need high levels of MAOI's, because too high of levels of MAOI's can cause some pretty uncomfortable, or even dangerous side effects. With that said, it sounds like you need to work with the MAOI dose slowly. Start at the lower end of the MAOI dose, and gradually bump your MAOI dose by say 25mg at a time, until you're actually feeling some effect from the MAOI's. Once you begin to feel some "warming, happy" effects from the MAOI's, you've likely hit your threshold. At that point, take your spice dose (say 75mg as a low - mid range dose for pharma), and you should have a noticeable to moderately strong experience.

In summary, the MAO level in your body is the first player when it comes to pharma success (imho), and finding what level of inhibition of those MAO's works for you is the first key. Once you isolate that factor, then you can keep that level as a constant, and begin increasing spice levels as you feel it's needed. Does that make sense?

One last thing is that MAOI's are fine to be taken in a capsule, but your spice should not be capsulized if possible (i.e. drink it or chase it with a solution. There are reasons for this too, but I won't get into it here. Ask if you want to know more on this, and I'll explain my theory.

I hoped that helps a little. Ask more if I didn't explain clearly.
Peace and good luck!
-idt

idtravlr, can you please elaborate? Caapi alkaloids are about as safe as they get (provided they aren't combined with other drugs), aren't they?

just to be a touch-stone for you, i am extremely sensitive to both spice AND harmalas. very little goes a looooooong way with yours truly. i am 6'2, 190 lbs., 5% body fat and very active. i can go to other worlds and meet up with my star family with between 75-100mg caapi copy/THH and 30-40mg DMT fumarates. if i'm using freebase, it's around 30-35mg.

using idt's lead, i'll say that i am a functionally gregarious person when needed (my job), but i am (in the deepest part of me) prone to depression and isolating myself. i spend a lot of time at home alone researching 'alternative knowledge' and working with my medicines. i think i would fall in the 'average' category in terms of my MAO production. i'm not so down that i can't function in the world and yet i'm not so up that, left to my own devices, i choose to interact with said real world.

ease in my brother. going up 10mg at a time is not a bad way to go with the pharma. it's deep medicine and when you find YOUR sweet spot....well....your life will never be the same...

LOVE AND GRATITUDE!!

ms_manic_minxx - Yes, I do agree with you that when it comes to MAOI's, the RIMA's found in Caapi are certainly on the safest end of the spectrum. With that said, the over-inhibition of MAO in the body can still lead to Serotonin hyperactivity, and even Serotonin Syndrome. The research that I have done shows that, although the numbers are small, there have been cases of Serotonin Syndrome even from RIMA's. This is typically, but not exclusively, when taken in combination with other drugs (as you state).

Additionally, if someone is not on a strict MAOI diet, very high levels of even RIMA's can cause illness. A lot of people (myself included) are somewhat loose with their diet, and only avoid the big "no-no's" when taking Caapi alks, which is typically fine, but not entirely without risk if very high levels of MAO inhibition are achieved. Mainly I'm just suggesting that redlightsflash err on the side of caution. On that note, ant's "go easy" approach, in even smaller increments than I suggested, is probably very wise. Of course I've never read anything from antrocles that wasn't wise.

Here is a link to an abstract on some research that was done on traditional MAOI's and RIMA's.

I will say that I am 100% going off of research here, because I have never used HIGH levels of RIMA's, but I thought it was worth calling out.

Peace,
-idt

Thanks for the link!

On the subject of being extremely MAOI'd, even with RIMAs, in light of that paper, what are anyone's thoughts on mixing Caapi with melatonin? Any speculation on how that would metabolize? Would it increase the risk of seratonin syndrome in any way? Thanks.

Just a simple question. I've been here off and on for a bit. Made Fumarate in the past but it's been some months.

If I have THH, Harmine and Harmline in freebase form (that's all that was available when I ordered), will the DMT fumarate have the acidity necessary to turn them into a salt for absorption? Or do I need to dissolve the harmala alkaloids in vinegar to acidify first before mixing in the fumarate?