Ok so..I used to think all these horrible things about rue in comparison to caapi, based on one expereince years ago where I drank rue tea with mimosa and just thouht I was dying, and i prepared it quickly and didnt even strain it properly....but I dunno..ive felt like that with caapi ayahausca once before as well..

Anyway..I got some rue..did a manske on it..and have been adding like lumps of the extracted harmalas to my changa batches,along with the normal caapi extract..and as much as I like caapi, without the rue I jsut think now that something was missing..I cant quite explain it..its hard..but there is something VERY special about rue..there is just something about this changa that is undeniable and totally sets it apart from my old changa with just caapi extract.

These last 2 batches of changa have been more light filled and energetically healing than any other changa I have worked with..no matter how much caapi I used in the past. Rue is basically essentail now for me..I dont want to bother making changa without it..and Im adding lots of it to my batches..probly like 150mg for like a gram of changa..on top of the caapi extract..plain caapi leaf or just caapi vine infused changa doesnt cut it for me..NOTHING compared to a batch loaded with extracted harmalas..

Now..I have been reading alot about rue taken orally..and alot of people on the ayahuasca boards etc say you simply cannot get visionary effects from rue alone, becasue you cant take that much without poisoning yourslef liek you can with capppi blablabla..I jsut think its all BS now. I think people like to hold on to the idea that caapi is somehow superior or something becasue its "ayahausca" and rue isnt etc..Ive takked to alot of people here in the last week, and read other reports who all attest to rue being very entheogenic and wonderful on its own. Im not saying rue and caapi are the same..I think they are different but also similar, but def not the same things..I jsut dont think caapi is any better so far.

I havent started dosing orally with it yet, but so far, the harmalas smoked from a manske extraction are wonderful..I can definatily tell that since I started to add them to my changa that there is something special happeneing..the afterglows are also very very pronounced as compared to before..and much longer lasting..the afterglows are also more psychedelic..its more like I drank an actauly brew now for the next 25 minutes or so after I come out of trance..I havent even barely been drinking any ayahuasca lately because the changs is soo much more clearer and centered than basically anything I have ever experienced..the afterglow from this changa hasnt been like all mellow and chill..I mean I shake and make noises and hallucinate for a good while longer than my old batches of changa..it really is like an ayahuasca peak..yet more, I cant find the word, but more than any brew I have drank..

So, now I am thinking that I will start to work with rue orally, first on its own to see how the visionary effects play out under the same conditions I use caapi alone in..some people here have recently said that rue produces more of the visionary dreaming than caapi..then I will take it with mimosa..and this is all rue alks from a manske tek to remove the more toxic alkaloids..not just rue tea..

But what I really am intersted in in mixing rue alkaloidsinto my brews with caapi vine..since the best changa I have ever had now contains a caapi extract, along with the rue harmalas..and even some passionflower extract I add..really this stuff is superior IMO to changa with only caapi alks..so I have this feeling that brews with rue added to the caapi are going to become a norm for me..

I really feel so far that I just dont know what people are talking about at all in reguards to rue causing negative mental effects and caapi beng superior etc..this is all from smoking the purified harmalas, but so far all I have gotten is surprisingly amazing effects.

You know, both davinci and michalangelo have been said to attribute alot of the creative insights responcible for they're work to they're use of syrian rue as a visionary and philisohpical tool..it's been burned and inhaled ritualistically and drank as an anti parasitical tea, and probably as a visionary brew as well for so long..I am confused as to why so many people at the aya forums have said you cant get visionary effects from rue alone..is this all just political?..

I've had some amazing experiences dosing orally with rue extract and DMT. Really breath taking, amazing, life affirming experiences. It just has a very harsh spirit inside it and I can see why that puts some people off. All of my most intimidating entity contact has had rue at the heart of it. It just seems to be the way of passage with rue. It's a tough initiator.

Adding extracted harmalas to changa sounds pretty awesome Defo on my to do list.

I have been wondering about this myself. My first rue experience was exactly as yours: harsh as advertised. After taking the time to extensively purify manske extracts, I have been blown away.
Light filled is the perfect description. The rue nausea is present in the beginning of course, but the experience itself is a euphoria caapi alone cannot achieve. They work together beautifully, which isn't much of a surprise.

A lot of rue hate does seem political or placebo based at the very least. It's much easier to talk about the spirit of the vine than of the seeds.

I will definitely be trying rue extracts in my next changa batch. Have you by chance posted your blend?

Ime, rue extracts can be beautiful in pharmahuasca or smoked by themselves. They are also really nice in a joint of cannabis, if you like weed, it adds a very noticeable mellow and "deepens" the high while insulating against paranoia in a very nice manner (kind of like you've got that warm harmala blanket wrapped around you, preventing the negative energy from seeping in). However, I have had some incredibly harrowing and harsh experiences while smoking rue extracts with freebase spice and to a lesser degree, changa.

Two of my last three vaped dmt sessions included harmala extracts and, let me say "harsh teacher" is the understatement of the millennium. Those two experiences were separated by some wonderful work with freebase/cannabis/mapacho spliffs for the SHE before last. On both of those other occasions I was nailed to the wall by the rue spirit and showed what was wrong with the way I was living my life. On the second one, it was considerably more intense, as though the rue spirit was saying "Listen up dumbass, I already showed you what the hell is up, snap to or don't call on me." He kept me blind (the dmt jewelled-fog appeared but never resolved into anything) and lost throughout that experience and I was completely and utterly shattered. When I came back, all I could do was repeat "I'm lost" over and over again for about 20 minutes.

Since this experience I have taken a four month break from psychedelics to fix and address things in my waking life. My growth in this period has been slow and arduous, but noticeable to me and those around me and I feel that whether or not it was pleasant, this was the lesson I needed. I have been microdosing with Caapi for the past week (I started once everything I wanted to do was on track and had been for a month or two) and feel completely and utterly amazing, very in tune with life and those around me (and I have even begun to get calls from hyperspace again, although I have yet to answer). So, I don't think that rue's rap is necessarily undeserved any more than an incredibly stern teacher. You will learn a lot, but that doesn't necessarily make the learning environment any warmer. That's not to say I haven't had good experiences with rue, but whereas mama Aya gently steers you and illuminates your path, papa Haoma raises his cane and yells at you to get the hell in line.

This is very interesting.

SWIM has just been getting into changa but he's enjoying sublingual harmalas+DMT since he can still use his "machine" and doesn't have to smoke plant matter (personal preference)

In any case he's tried THH and harmine and neglected harmaline or rue-extract. This makes him eager to give it a try.


As for oral, though he's not the most experienced, 10+ barely threshold, 2 mild, 1 medium and 1 STRONG. Only the threshold and mild ones with caapi or THH.
Nonetheless he's noticed that with rue there is a very wavy with a double-peak the strongest for SWIM being about 1:45 - 2:15 after dosing
Caapi it seems is more of a steady (still wavy) curve.

Like he said, he's not the most experienced so he can't say much about the spirits of them.

These days SWIM prefers whole rue tea over whole caapi tea by far. The caapi feels so toxic to SWIM. I don't see how people could prefer it. Other than the toxicity, the effects of caapi are pleasant, but SWIM doesn't really see it as being any better, just different. At first he was all romantic about caapi, but after the newness wore off, he started seeing it wasn't really any better than rue. It's like comparing LSD with shrooms. They are different. One isn't really much better than the other.

SWIM's all time favorite is using just THH though. THH produces a more mathematical/scientific kind of experience, very clear, focused, etc., but the harmaline experience is almost the complete opposite. It's more wild, and this can be a good thing sometimes. It all depends on what you want to experience.

SWIM usually has harmaline sitting around because it's cheap compared to THH. He often runs out of THH and has to use harmaline instead. If he's out of both and broke, he uses raw rue tea and doesn't bother doing an extraction. Just a filtered tea is good enough. About 2 grams works great for SWIM.

Honestly, I don't see why people bother extracting rue. SWIM uses it as is and never gets any side effects from it. I think most people just use too much.

^ what about rue only tea? Caapi tea for me I use alot late at night to get these sequences of visionary type of dreams that I fall into..its really hard to explain..but it is extremely profound and relevant to my life at times..as if I am actaully being taught things specific to my growth based on where I am at in my life, but its not in your face at all..I have to lay down in he dark an sort of fall into a half sleep state for it to really happen..does rue only tea do this for you as well?

I appreciate harmalas extracts for their ease of dosing and separation between harmaline and harmine. Dosing rue tea has always been sketchy for me, unfortunately. Not all of us get to enjoy super sensatively like you, ron.
And as fractal mentioned, it also allows the ability to use rue in changa, something I am very much looking forward to.

Plus, I love me a good manske.

You know, that's probably my favourite extraction. All those nice colour changes, trying to get that liquid nice and clear and all food grade too!

Mine too bro, mine too ! It`s like a cooking a good stuff for lunch (launch ). What I love is the fact one dealing with hydrochlorides without using mothafuka HCL Cool as a cucumber !

Out of curiosity...SWIM seems like a pretty awesome chemist with very solid background and abilities. If he finds THH so superior, why doesn't he do those harmine/harmaline to THH conversions that are floating around on the Nexus. It would seem to be well within the range of SWIM's abilities, given the pioneering work SWIM has done on multiple teks.

Have you ever noticed SWIM only talks about extracting things he can’t already buy?

The techs SWIM has made and published are for extracting DMT, strychnine, mescaline, bufotenine, etc., not things he can already buy like caffeine, kavalactones, harmaline, etc. Why extract caffeine, just for the heck of it? Just to save a few bucks? It’s just not worth doing in my opinion. I’d rather spend time on something new no one has done before.

The THH SWIM has is food grade, and none of the techs I’ve ever seen use things SWIM can find in food grade form. Food grade is a big issue for SWIM. Plus the extra work involved, it’s not worth it. It’s not like THH is that much better than harmaline. You have to understand that SWIM’s free time is extremely limited, so unless there’s a better reason to do another tech in his busy schedule, SWIM is probably not going to do it.

If it was super expensive or illegal to buy, SWIM would probably be more interested in extracting it. But it’s like caffeine or kavalactones; you can already buy them, so why bother doing it at home? The harmala techs are time consuming, and SWIM doesn’t have the time to bother with it. If he's out of harmaline or THH, he just uses rue tea. Why bother extracting it yourself?

Nope, but I have now Thanks for the answer.

Or they say so...Unless ofcourse SWIM knows the vendors in question...very very very well ,in other words "in person" and has a close relationship with them.

One could already be synthesing THH via the zinc/HCl method not using any foodgrade materials ,but pass it as such since profit can be made if he/she can also captivate the interest and trust of "food grade only!" fans.

SWIM still hasnt the Grip on what would be the ideal dose of Rue Freebase Alks in Changa
It seems to him there are a lot of different opinions on this...

The dosage should give Maximum Potenciation- while not putting him to sleep , or give side effects , at some level it surely wont get more beneficial. Whats your favored dose in combination with smoked Spice , Rue Users ?

He knows he can handle quite a lot of smoked Rue freebase (as long as theres no cannabis involved)
but he has also been reading about neurotoxic effects , and he doesnt want to regret someday ...

Rue infused Tobacco with 160mg /g is quite stoning.

Is SWIM sensitive to rue though like he is to other substances? Most would probably have to use a little more to be more effective which goes along with more side effects.

I don't think he's extra sensitive to harmalas. When using pure alkaloids he uses the standard doses of harmalas: i.e., 150-200 mg of harmine or THH, 75-100 mg of harmaline.

I don't think so. That's false advertising and illegal. They state the THH is from caapi.

It's my understanding that they extract the THH from B. Caapi, and use column chromatography to separate harmine from the THH. That's what they've hinted at when I asked about it. One time in an email asking about why they were out of THH, they said they were out of purasil. For those who don't know, purasil is used in column chromatography.

Have you ever noticed they run out of THH and Caapi Copy often, but they always seem to have harmaline in stock? If they were doing like you said, why would they run out of THH and Caapi Copy all the time but still have lots of harmaline in stock? That doesn't make sense to me.

Take a look at their site, they are fully stocked with harmaline only. The others are partially stocked. It's usually like that. If they were synthesizing THH from harmaline, it would most likely be the other way around. Why stock harmaline if you can synthesize THH from it? I don't think their THH is synthetic like you imply. It doesn't make sense to me. If it was, why stock harmaline at all? THH is worth more money, isn't it? Maybe not. Maybe it doesn't sell as well. Harmaline is more well known than THH.

4g ground seeds is my sweet spot, but my boiling process isn't thorough. I like a bit of synergy beyond the maoi action.

69ron: THH is kinda expensive.

Maybe the boiling is reducing potency?

SWIM uses 2-3 grams of finely powdered rue seed in 1 cup of hot water, no boiling. It’s steeped for 15 minutes and then filtered. Then SWIM adds some citric acid and then the DMT directly to the rue tea and drinks it down. It works great. No side effects are felt.

Boiling will extract more junk into the tea. I don't see a reason for it.