wouldent you know it.

i mean wouldent somthing be apperently off and or paifuly wrong.



somthing iv just been wondering cus so many people are freaked about the use of lye in spice making.



im just wondering if there are any horror storys or reports of people smoking super nasty caustic dmt.....



wich im sure there are. im just wondering how often it happens if at all

My understanding is that lye doesn't vaporize this side of a blast furnace...meaning the chance of getting more than a few micrograms of NaOH dust is very very small.

The worst I have heard of is harsh smoke and a very poor experience.

ah
yeah i also heard about lye not being smmokeable in a conventinal sense

it would show up in the pipe afterwords one would think

Yea, boils at 1390 deg celsius...Would probably not get smoked at all if it was in there.

I realize the numbers don't add up, but SWIM's tongue and lips taste very caustic after smoking unclean DMT. Since this is not a characteristic of DMT itself, SWIM thinks excess lye must get carried along with the DMT once it sublimes and vaporizes.

It is well worth it to do all the steps to remove it, IMHO. I doubt those minute amounts of lye will do anything to your lungs, but it still is kind of a scary feeling/taste and SWIM feels it disrupts the experience.

Yea, but it's also possible that other impurities are causing the change in taste?

I'm not saying that you ought not clean the lye out of your product, of course you should. I'm just saying, if there were lye in your product, it's probably not THAT big of danger/problem. I've never found it easy to leave lye in my product anyway, just doesnt seem to wanna stay anywhere near that naphtha.

If you have any lye contamination in your final product, which is possible if you don’t do all the steps right, then it is going to REALLY BURN if you inhale it.

It’s true that you can’t smoke lye, but you can inhale it. Try this (if you’re really stupid and want to get a really bad chemical burn): put some powder lye in your pipe and suck on the pipe. Don’t even use a flame. Some of that lye dust is going to get in your mouth, your lungs, etc. If you inhale enough you’re going to get one hell of a chemical burn and you may have to be hospitalized.

Lye is not something to play around with. It can cause damage to your mouth, lungs, eyes, skin, etc. You can get permanent eye damage if some gets on your eyes. That is really dangerous stuff. SWIM saw a guy melt part of his hand by accidentally spilling some concentrated lye solution on his hand. He has a permanent scar from it.

Lye is dangerous. That’s one reason SWIM uses sodium carbonate instead.

if you smoke with a water bong, it prevents this

and in any case you can always do a sodium carbonate wash, and recrystalize it.. SWIM does all those 3

but yeah each one to his own

indeed
soda wash and recry are key


i was just wondering if there where any horror storys people knew of

kinda like 69rons story




yeah for sure lye is powerfuly dangerous stufff
i dont that was ever really in question

it's true, lye easily hydrolyzes fatty membranes; thus if you get them in your eyes, you're pretty screwed. but if you're careful when handling it, you really have nothing to worry about.
especially in the extraction process: the nonpolar solvent doesn't carry over much polar material at all.
dry your solvent over magnesium sulfate, and don't worry much about it.

Lye is commonly used for making soap. It can turn the fat in your skin into soap on contact and cause scars from this:



Read the MSDS



The same info for sodium carbonate showing how much safer it is:



See why SWIM uses sodium carbonate instead!

SWIM has experienced getting saturated sodium carbonate on his skin. It burns a little bit and doesn't leave a scar. SWIM has actually used pure sodium carbonate in his mouth as a sublingual enhancer for Yopo. It works really well, but please don't try this. It burns quite a bit. But again, it doesn't leave a scar. If you did that with sodium hydroxide, you'd be REALLY SORRY. We're talking a trip to the hospital, and maybe even death from swallowing some of it.

indeed

strong bases like NaOH hydrolyze fatty acids into soap (saponification), though it doesn't stop swim from using it.
treat it with the same respect as more dangerous acids...sulfuric, perchloric, and hydrofluoric acid.

I believe the lye danger is more while using it during the extraction.

I usually use a water/lye mixture with a pH of 13 to 14 when basifying my bark solution. Thats not a safe thing to have just sitting around!!

I wear a painters mask, goggles & rubber gloves, plus long sleeves & pants to be safe. I also take my time bringing the water mixture up to pH14, it can get pretty hot while mixing so I add only a very little bit at a time and wait for it too cool back down before adding more.
I also do this mixing in the sink just in case of a spill of breakage. I wouldn't want that shit getting down into the carpet!!

I got a single granual of the lye crystal down the back of my glove one time and with the sweat in the glove, it started to dissolve & burn pretty badly!! One granual!!

I now tape the ends of the gloves down while mixing my water/lye mixture.

Be careful out there!!!

WS

sure, caustic soda is very.. ahmm... caustic hehe

it can get you blind and all, and sodium carbonate IS safer, nobody denies that

(here comes stupid comparison) but you can also get blind if the scissors you are using to cut some paper goes into your eye for some reason.. Im all for it if you feel safer using a round-tip scissors instead of the pointy-edge scissors, but if you dont mind paying a bit more attention and having a little extra care, then its fine to use the pointy scissors

personally, SWIM is quite sure he can make the extraction without getting any NaOH in himself... SWIM uses safety goggles, mask and good long nitrile gloves, and always handles the NaOH carefully..


that being said, I know SWIY is not saying that everybody should do like SWIY, and neither im saying that SWIY is doing anything bad in choosing sodium carbonate instead

I'm just saying be careful. It is dangerous stuff. Naphtha is also dangerous. It's very flammable. Lots of people use naphtha instead of DCM which SWIM finds puzzling. SWIM uses DCM because it’s not flammable, and it’s far better at extracting DMT than naphtha. But DCM is a potential cancer risk so some people avoid it because of that. I think mainly most people just don’t know where to get DCM and so they grab the worst possible solvent, naphtha. Naphtha is really on the low end and considered to be a vastly inferior solvent for extractions. That’s why in all the professional literature on plant extractions they use ether, chloroform, or DCM. You pretty much never see naphtha being used.

Pretty much all of this stuff is dangerous in one way or another.

Even the basic solvent we all use called water can kill you if you drink too much of it! Or drown you if you fall into it!

If you’re using dangerous chemicals, please where gloves and take all the other steps to ensure you don’t breathe it in or get it on your skin, eyes, etc.

SWIM always prefers to use the least dangerous chemicals possible.



SWIM has been working on a simple DMT extraction tech that uses only water, salt, and dilute HCl to precipitate DMT HCl. It works, the yield is small, but the tech in not perfected yet. Others I know are working on extracting DMT using only acetone and fumaric acid and they seem to be getting good results.



Eventually an extraction tech will be found for DMT that is safe and simple, requiring no non-polar solvents at all, no dangerous bases, and no dangerous acids. At that point we can stop using gloves, gas masks, fume hoods, and all those dangerous chemicals. Such extraction techs are in the works right now. They’ve already been perfected for harmine, harmaline, and bufotenine. It’s only a matter of time for these techs to be adapted to DMT, and 5-MeO-DMT.

keep us up to date with those techs man! it'd be awesome not having to give money to the chemical industry. i already feel bad for having bought 4 cans of naphtha. i don't plan on depriving our planet of any more oil nor do i want to take part in it. for that reason i don't own a car. and never will!

You can run your car on vegetable oil

SWIM will resume his tests after his lab is inspected by the city. Once the lab passes inspection, then he can start working on extraction techs again.

In the mean time some very interesting stuff has been posted by Coschi, Ronue and amor_fati in the last few pages of this thread Pure DMT Fumarate from freebase DMT. They’ve all posted about SWIMs who managed to make DMT fumarate. This salt form has some very interesting qualities. It’s the only salt form of DMT that isn’t a gooey mess. They’ve been able to precipitate it from acetone saturated with fumaric acid. Acetone is a natural solvent that is found in the human body. Even bananas contain acetone. Fumaric acid is also found in the human body and in nature.

The fact that DMT fumarate can be precipitated from acetone saturated with fumaric acid gives people a new trick to use in extraction techs. It’s exciting and will lead to newer safer ways to extract DMT.

Ronue posted about an easy way to turn DMT fumarate into freebase DMT by dissolving it in a small amount of water and adding sodium carbonate (sodium carbonate is made by cooking baking soda in an oven). The DMT freebase precipitates out of the water after a few days and can be collected on a filter.

too bad in SWIM´s country acetone is controlled

btw, another nice green tek without use of petrochemicals is this one

Yeah, SWIM made the fumarate easily. It was very dramatic the first time, it started snowing right there in the jar it was exciting. SWIM reused the same acetone the second time and nothing visible was happening and he was concerned. But he left the jar alone for the night and it was waiting in the bottom in the morning. He has yet to test it and is still afraid of doing so, but he trusts others claims that it is effective. He won't even touch it until he tests it for 5-MeO, as he is hopeful that's the explanation for his experience being so.....strange.