Depends how you define pain. I agree that if pain is defined simply as a brain phenomena, then no, there is no illusion of pain (assuming the same areas of the brain fire up!) However if pain is defined as a system - stimulation, nerve endings, a signal traveling through the nervous system to the brain where those same areas are fired up - then the "illusion of pain" would be the firing of those areas without the complicity of the rest of the system. i.e. without any external physical stimuli, and no intermediary signal transmission, the brain reacts as if there were.

But I can see many avenues for disagreement!

JBArk

It wasn't my trip, but if I recall the report said that the actual duration was in the normal range, but appeared to last 7 days. Like I said, weird stuff, Salvia...!

JBArk

you can't define a feeling with a model how this feeling is created. Pain is an emotion, does not depend on how its beeing created...

I understand what you mean obliguhl, but that doesn't mean we can't have our ways of explaining where the pain comes from. Since the cause/source of the pain doesn't exist, we title it as such.

Not exactly...



wikipedia

As I said - depends how you define it! define it differently and you reset the parameters, excluding certain things like the notion of illusory, or even phantom pain. Besides, pain is not an emotion, but a sensation.

JBArk

Personally, I've never had any pain from psychedelics. One time I ate some ice cream on acid that didn't agree with my stomach and I found myself in some of the worse stomach pains of my life. From the way I look at it, psychedelics have a tendency to magnify what's already there, so if you're tripping and happy, you'll be really happy, but if you hurt yourself, you'll really be aware of the pain.

Using nitrous oxide I've had a couple of illusory physical sensations that were shitty (pain). I had this strange self-revealing crystal like thing which as I looked into would open up more and more in various ways and then finally it stabbed me in the back of my eye (very sharp pain in the back of my eye but lasted only a second, still live in a bit of fear of it when I trip sadly) and became my arch nemesis, haunting me through various trips. I watched a brain movie about these shapes that tossed blade things and then one poked me (not too hard) in the rib, but upon opening my eyes I noticed I had a canister sitting there and it just amplified the already present (but unaware) physical feeling to add to the movie. Another time I had a "demon" provide me with the sensation of two fingers kneading something like tapioca inside of me, by far the weirdest physical sensation I've felt. I've had other physical sensations but one recurring one is that of dragging my index finger over some rough damp rock or something.

Psychedelics can cause physical pain, but really there is so much power in intention that unless it's where you want to go (or you take too much) you shouldn't have to worry about it.

I recently finished Grof's LSD: Doorway to the Numinous, and it managed to categorise LSD experiences based on (not-exclusively) perinatal experiences. In these categories it mentioned how subjects who experienced/relived a difficult birth experience could feel the very real constriction and pain induced from a bad birth. In various parts of the book, subjects described very real and severe pain. So I guess this answers my question, yes, psychedelics can induce pain.

Have to say that alot of sensation is in interpretation, which always differs slightly in my case. I have had sensations of interpreted pain with nitrous and dmt, and I believe them to be intrerpretations of the same sensations happening, though maybe not. It is very much associated with how you interpret the buzz or vibration, ive felt everything from warm water to needles to euphoria and pure energy to penetrating anxiety. It helps to understand your interpretations and even though in the moment its hard to change them, in the long run you can prevent negative interpretations. Psychedelics are strongly manifesting of course!

I definitely vote yes it can make you percieve non existant pain. It is uncommon but i have felt pain due to full blown vivid hallucinations, like my hand being cut by a vibrating pocket mirror, seeing the blood drip down my finger tips and feeling the cut on my middle finger, before the mirror expanded across the entire room and started to cut me in half like one of those guillotines... the blood dissolved back into my skin as i stared at it and my finger felt sore until all visuals had disappeared, as well as my hand felt "lubricated" with the blood.

So im guessing just as one could feel like they are wet, slipping towards different gravitational field, etc etc then yes i can tell you that "fake" pain is possible