It has been my desire for a number of years to leave the moneyminded, competative and hectic city life behind and, with a significant group of likeminded people, found a self-sustaining community in a natural enviroment.

First off course land should be obtained. A patch of forrestland, a plateau in the mountains or an island. It could be bought. This could be done by about 100 to 200 people saving money every month for many years. Or perhaps a remote enough, unoccupied Island or Mountain plateau could be unofficially claimed?
I don't know yet.
This community wouldn't be relying on the use of money. Every household would have their own farm/cattle to keep and food to provide. Maintenance work to serve the wellbeing of the community (Drinking water, Electricity, Cleaning/Sweeping streets/public terrain etc..) would be done in collaborative efforts.

And last but not least I hope to build a temple for entheogenic ceremonies with around it an entheogenic garden.
Now that sounds like an acceptable place to grow old to me.


However there are off course so many obstacles:
-What land should be used?
-Should it be bought?
-Should a large piece of uninterrupted nature be claimed?(Like an island, or a forrest?)
-Would buying land imply that you can live by your own laws? (concerning entheogenesis & substances?)
-Could such a community be negociable to be allowed in a nature reserve if it was ecologically agreeable?
-Are there allready such communities in existance today?



In this topic I hope to gather likeminded people who wish to join me in realising this dream of mine.
Hopefully people that have varying knowledge & skills that I don't could help with the founding of such a community.

Thes utopian fantasy communities never work the way their founders intend, unfortunately. It has been attempted countless times - the first, of course were agrarian societies in the mesopotamian valley. They led to cities, kingdoms, empires.

We can hide behind idealism all we like, the fact of the matter is that power & politics are a part of our very nature, and necessarily lead to resource based economies and spiritual factioning. Only takes a generation, sometimes less.

Just look at Auroville, near Pondicherry in india. Spiritually based rather than entheogen, but still... Within 10 years ( i believe) it was shattered by internal power struggles and fundamental disagreements about their very purpose and approach. There are many other examples.

While i applaud your optimism, i must quote rodney king:

"why can't we all just get along"

if these idealistic communities are doomed to lead us right back where we started, as i believe they are, why not just concentrate on making this place better, wherever that may be for you.

I really don't think the world as it is now is that bad a place. In fact, more people live in security on this planet than ever before. There is much room for improvement, but we live in possibly the most peaceful time, as well as one of the most exciting, in the history of humanity.

I understand ther are a lot of people on this forum dissatisfied with the status quo, railing aginst the MAN and his grave injustices, but try and look at it from the perspective described above. You are fighting a losing battle if your battle is to change everything, and to change it right now.

And new communities always come full circle, then splinter off into other communities that come full circle. It is an inevitable adaptive strategy of evolutionary survival. To fight it heqd on is to bang your head against a wall. I am not condoning complacency - on the contrary, i am encouraging efficient and effective action.

In short, work from within, accept some limitations, but push the boundaries. This is the brand of realistic optimism i espouse.

Peace,

JBArk

I inderstand your scepticism and fear for corruption. Allthugh I do not feel it to be part of my nature personally. I know countless people that do not at all feel powerstruggles, destructive competition and pathological self-centeredness are part of our true nature.

In fact we feel this to go very much against our nature, and despite it being tempting to be dragged along in the mainstream culture in which these powerstruggles are deemed normal, we cannot at all identify our own true nature with this lifestyle.

To me, and the people who have a similair worlview, such a community does not echo Utopia allthough it seems indeed somewhat of an Utopia.
I don't expect dayly human imperfection(meaning some level of social conflict) to disappear in such a lifestyle.
I do however expect it to be a whole lot more free, emotionally satisfying and simple than our present day lifestyle.

Off course there are many problems in the practicality of such a community that I can not anticipate now and will just run into at one point. I am however ready to embrace them.
With the monetary system removed, people being as independant and self-sustaining as they can be, people being granted optimal personal freedom I don't expect such a community to be perfect and devoid of any conflict or problems, but I really do expect it to be a whole lot more emotionally satisfying, true to our nature and creatively inspiring than our present day lifestyle.

Maybe you will think of me to be optimistic when I say this, but I really believe human beings have the capacity to unite, to take quite a number of years to come together and think, design, discuss, practice, fail, rethink, rediscuss, redesign and practice again and again to come to a very sustainable, very simple, very honoust way of living that is totally practical.

This is the key I think.

This is a topic that has been very much on my mind for the past year. While I understand that modern society has much to offer, I feel the monetary race is the biggest downfall in my journey in enlightenment. We spend our time making money, in itself useless, in order to participate in society. The issue is that we have completely transcended the basic survival struggle and have become tied up in the society struggle that has replaced it. Making more money than we need to buy more things than we need.

Basic survival needs:
Food
Water
Shelter (clothing)

Communal societies have failed and will continue to fail, but that in no way proves that they cannot succeed. I think the community that has grown here is very open to the idea of a minimalistic lifestyle. To deny that entheogens have an influence on this persuasion would by a downright lie. For many of us, the entheogenic lifestyle has to some extent become our religion or at least a major pillar in our belief system. Furthermore, I think participation in these substances has "cured" us of many petty character flaws. Conflict is always possible, but I think we all realize we have a unique community here in terms of mutual respect and knowledge of our interconnectedness.

I have brought this topic up with my close friends with mixed receptions. Organizing a group through the nexus is an intriguing opportunity. It is a big commitment to be sure, but one that could be absurdly rewarding. Location seems to be the biggest concern in my mind. The longer the growing season the better, etc.

I agree with Eden, for the most part. I think it could work, and it would definitely be exciting. At the bare minimum, instead of us all being entheogen-growing hermits in some warm mountains somewhere, we could all be entheogen-growing hermits together in some warm mountains somewhere.

There is a big difference between horticulture and agriculture. In horticulture, everyone got it's own garden to plant stuff for their own use. Not very often, much more is produced than needed. In agriculture, a farm produces food for many, giving them the chance to do other things instead of working on the farm (specialisation). It also gave way to an elite, who would use the surplus to control the people...read: tax.
This led to hirarchical structures..

I see no reason why a tribal society you think of SKA, wouldn't work. Everyone who says otherwise, is not aquintance with the reality of tribal peoples and speaks only from his own perspective. A society with totally flat hirarchical structures is harder to realize. They once pretty much existed, at times were hunting and gathering was the means of subsistence. Even in this community are hirarchies. But psychedelics do help to keep them down.

One thing you should keep in mind SKA...it could happen, that the "uninhibited" land is populated by indigenous people, or looked at as sacred land. This is land you can "buy", but it will never be yours.

A good way to thwart elitism would be for everyone to have their own farm( which appearantly is called horticulture? ). Every household would be responsible for their own farm. With a little help of electricity and basic technology the farming could become alot less labourintensive and leave people with time for other things to do. ( technology like timed water sprinklers or soil irrigration that gives different crops water on their different aquired times).

If everyone is responsible for their own foodsupply and there is no central farm and distribution center, then elitism and control issues are alot less likely.


I've been pondering the possible locations for such a community and wondered if this could be done in large nature reserves? There seem to be many islands that are nature reserves.

Perhaps there are incredibly wealthy people that own significant acres of land that are willing to house such a community? Perhaps we can be helped to such land by organisations such as GreenPeace and others?

Let's ponder the possibilities ( other than buying )

Every person has their own skill set, and motivations. In my experience, the "living off the land" thing is no easier than the "rat race", no less stressful. But some people just love working off the land, if that's your dream, then go for it. As for me, and I suspect a large number of people, they like the technologies and conveniences of society, and don't want to give that up for cows. Plus I've found all I gotta do is walk to a park and I feel like I'm out in nature. So I can walk in and out of society and solitude pretty much any time.

Living in a city doesn't mean you have to live a "rat race" life. Perhaps just consider getting a job that you like, that doesn't stress you out so much. Or moving to a small city.

I'll be more than happy to leave my citylife with all it's vain luxuries behind to trade it for cows and cropfields.
And I'm seeking about 20 people who feel the same way and are equally prepared as me to leave their current lives far behind.

I don't expect it to be Utopia, but I do expect it to be a whole lot more joyous and free.
And I don't fear a little technology and electricity. If ecofriendly technology can help us grow crops in more secure and less labour intensive ways, then that is most welcome.

That is completely true. Living off the land is no less stressful, but it is a much simpler lifestyle.
This is what appeals to me. I need to eat food, therefore I will grow food.

SKA, what is your desired timeframe on this?
I am very interested in this project, if it becomes one, but won't be available for a few years.

Preferably as soon as possible, but I've really no Idea. First I need to unite about 20 to 30 people. I've allready quite a number that is with me 100% and quite a bunch more that are with me about 80%.
In time they may make up their minds. In that time I hope to figure out possible locations for the community and think through every foreseeable problem/need. If land really should be bought for this then me and about 30 people better start saving money for quite some time. Maybe we can find out if our community would be welcome to settle in a nature reserve or on a wealthy person's land who agrees with and supports our ideals. Figuring all this out and organising it will be a plan of many years.


I'm going to go through with this even if it's going to be a lifetime of work.

I would love to know what experience anyone has with a community/village or commune? Seems like a lot of hear say and second hand info....There are eco villages that are very successful to this day and lots of them. Yes some fail but in reality more marrages fail than communities. http://www.dancingrabbit.org/ is one worth a look. In the US alone I found over 200 established villages and 30-40 starting out. Loads of doors for anyone to live how they please without having to go from scratch.

This subject has been of interest for me for the past three years and I have gone to countless meetings, interviews - so on with "interested" persons but in the end I had to bite the bullet and buy land without the aid of others. If you want 100-200 people living on one property you have that many opinions and situations you need to account for and it can take years to get two people to agree to one thing, let alone 200 people. I am still hope full to create a village at the pharm but am still answering a lot of questions for myself. This year we will be building a off grid, one bedroom straw bail cottage to start off the process and I hope by next summer to have at least two people starting things off.

So say you have the $ for land with like minded people-who will own the land-will it be a trust? Is this a 5-10-100-200 or longer year vision? What if people leave after years of building and adding to the community do they leave empty handed or are refunded the buy in value? Can members sell their spot or is there added fee's for # of children? Does the buy in value stay the same when you are first starting out vrs when the community is established? Can people join at anytime, who screens members, what about kids/pets/spiritual values? The list goes on....

I understand not wanting to use $$ for a community but land taxes will need to be paid, equipment, fencing, housing supplies, building materials, water systems, seeds etc all cost something where will all that come from?

200 established villages you say? How did you discover these? Every time I start a search I get overwhelmed by the amount of useless returns.

I think the community will survive as long as it has to. There is no real vision other than it supporting the people it is made up of. This may be a naive view, but the village exists for the people, not the other way around. These are very important questions though. I agree money cannot be discounted completely, but the monetary system can always exist exclusively for dealings with "the outside world". Members might be required to have a certain amount of money set aside for these expenses to be used as needed to perpetuate the community.

This is obviously still a work in progress, and it seems you have a lot of this thought through already.
What is the goal and scope of your own project?

There are at least two intentional communities that I know of in my town alone... and I only know about the workings of one. They struggle much more with the city regulations than amongst themselves!

Eden-Online searches will not get you far if you are looking for eco villages as some are off grid/under the radar and most are mot public but they are out there. Books were my first start into the process, which led to email address's/phone numbers and meeting people. I like your simple view of "supporting the people" as things get confused in details sometimes but asking what you want beyond simple support is needed. From what I have read/heard, the villages that fail do so because of questions that were not answered before people "joined" and the resulting conflicts damaged relationships beyond repair.

As for the goals of my own project 1. To live in harmony with nature and ourselves using permaculture principles 2. Build sustainable, off grid housing and business ventures on the property. There is more but that is the main two
At the moment a few people are helping with gardens/food share but am looking forward to more people living off the land.

I highly recommend reading and answering Duane Lights questions here http://i.personallifemed..._COMMUNITY_QUESTIONS.pdf His Zero-to-Five Discussion and
Decision-making process at the end is amazing at resolving conflicts, finding out what the issues are.

So if I can take your location as the 45th parallel seriously, you are in for some winters.
What are you plans for the off season?

Interesting document as well. Seems to lay a very manageable framework for dealing with the issues that will most definitely come about.

Off season? There is no off season on the pharm but yes we do have winter. Winter is great for starting seedlings, canning, reading, growing inside herbs and a load of other "jobs" that need to be done. We have animals year round so they need attention during the winter as well-it never ends

My kale and most herbs do better inside than outside-even during the summer months so it's a steady growth of plants in the sunroom and windows.

peace

Glad to see my ball has started rolling

@ Pharmer:

I really wish to escape the monetairy system and it's systematic exploitation of everyone and everything.
If 100 people lived in a community and had to pay land taxes, they would still be a slave to the monetairy system, being FORCED to work and make money or else they'd be evicted from their land, much like a landlord evicts you out of your home if you don't pay the rent. And this way we are forced to work senseless jobs and toss our lives away. It's slavery.
This is exactly what I seek to escape.

Some equipment and materials may be nececairy to buy. For this the community members could run small time businesses, such as internet shops, where they could sell their art/music/products..etc and the money made from those businesses could serve to buy materials from abroad.

Business in the community should be an extra activity to aquire somewhat luxurious goods we cannot grow/produce ourselves, but business should NEVER become a MUST for survival, like it is in the monetairy system. It should be so that if business is very unsuccessfull, the community wouldn't suffer much from it.

The whole point is to no longer be dependant on money and moneymaking, but instead to live self-providing in freedom.

I've been drawing designs for community houses.
They were 2 story buildings. One underground basement level that is part storage, part cool cell/fridge. Here food can be stored. Fridges and Freezers are going to be very important in a community to conserve foods for a long time. This basement could be accessable from a stairwell in the kitchen on the ground level.

Then the ground level would contain a hall with a stairway to the 1st floor, a large living room, a large kitchen and a separate room (lounge room, hobby room, workshop, music studio..whateveryoulike)
The first floor would contain 2 bedrooms, one toilet and one bathroom, a large open hall and a balcony.

From the hall on the 1st floor there could be a stairway into the attic. This is the 2nd floor. Here is space for a studyroom/workspace, extra storage and an extra bed for guests.



Every such a house could house between 1 and 4 people. These people would work on a cropfield around that house.



Another idea is to make 2 houses under one roof. Meaning two houses under one large pointy roof with a hall in between them.
Now the question is how to divide the tasks. An agreed, written down workscheme that divides the work equally throughout the week?

If one household's farm would contain 5 patches of farmland, interrupted by footpaths, then 1 patch could be used to grow potatoes & carrots, another patch for Tomatoes & Paprikas, another patch for Lentils & beans, another patch for unions & garlic and the last patch for Corn & Rucola then the 2 to 4 inhabitants could provide the care for these crops in shifts according to an agreed to workscheme.


If overtime we can upgrade with electricity and some technology we can let timed sprinkler systems, greenhouses with air temperature & humidity control and sprinklers spreading liquid compost this would drastically reduce the amount of labour needed on the farm.


I've been sketching some house and farm designs in my blackbook. Perhaps I should scan them and upload them to give an idea.

saving my mon ey up for physical journeys across the us if some one knows of something like this lemme know I'll put it on my agenda.

I'm planning on fishing in the oceans to help with food (you don't need a licence to do so) and following the seasons I'm kind of a wuss with really hot and really cold weather. I'm gunna follow the nice weather it's been my dream for a while now if I don't follow through I don't thnk I could live with my self