polytrip wrote:Or maybe elemicin is being metabolized to something harmala's DO have an effect on, like TMA.
Back to this TMA theory again. I wish SWIM has had experience with TMA.
PiHKAL says oral doses for TMA are 100 - 250 mg. That’s much more than is present in 1 ml of elemi oil. SWIM’s oil is about 4% elemicin (that’s the amount of material that DMSO extracts from the oil). With 1 ml being about 880 mg, 4% comes to 35 mg. SWIM is extra sensitive to all psychedelics, usually needing only 1/2 to 1/4 the dose needed by other people. For SWIM 1 ml is needed for it to really be called a psychedelic experience. Below that, he can feel it, but it’s not really very psychedelic. Earlier I had issues with the TMA dosage, but now after more testing, I think the TMA dosage seems reasonable if all the elemicin is being converted to TMA.
Elemicin weighs 208.25 g/mol
TMA weighs 225.28 g/mol
So 35 mg of elemicin could become 37.8 mg of TMA if all of it was concerted. If most people need 100 mg of TMA to be active, SWIM could easily require only 25-50 mg, because he’s extra sensitive to all psychedelics.
The duration of TMA is 6-8 hours, and that matches the duration of elemicin almost exactly.
Let’s look at the only trip reports I can find on TMA, which are from PiHKAL:
Quote:(with 135 mg) I had no nausea, although I always vomit with mescaline. Somehow my personality was divided and exposed, and this allowed me to understand my psychic structure more clearly. But maybe others could look in there, too. The psychiatric use of this drug would be interesting to pursue. It is not completely pleasant, maybe because of this personal intimacy.
SWIM cannot at all relate to the above trip report.
Quote:(with 140 mg) There were not the color changes of mescaline there, but certainly a good humor and an over-appreciation of jokes. The images behind the eyes were remarkable and tied in with the music, and I became annoyed at other people's conversations that got in the way. I was out of it in eight hours. I would equate this to 300 or 350 milligrams of mescaline and I rather think that I would prefer the latter.
That report could possibly be similar to elemicin. It’s hard to say. The mood lift is there. The closed eyed visuals are there.
Quote:(with 225 mg) There was quite a bit of nausea in the first hour. Then I found myself becoming emotionally quite volatile, sometimes gentle and peaceful, sometimes irritable and pugnacious. It was a day to be connected in one way or another with music. I was reading Bernstein's 'Joy of Music' and every phrase was audible to me. On the radio, Rachmaninoff's 2nd piano concerto on the radio put me in an eyes-closed foetal position and I was totally involved with the structure of the music. I was suspended, inverted, held by fine filigreed strands of the music which had been woven from the arpeggios and knotted with the chords. The commercials that followed were irritating, and the next piece, Slaughter on Fifth Avenue, made me quite violent. I was told that I had a, 'Don't cross me if you know what is good for you,' look to me. I easily crushed a rose, although it had been a thing of beauty.
It don’t see anything in that report that’s much like elemicin except for the enhanced perception of music. Elemicin is a mood lifter, and that report makes it sound just plain awful on an emotional level. But maybe that guy is just emotionally volatile by nature and the TMA just sort of brought it out more.
Unfortunately, that’s the limit of trip reports on TMA that I can find. None of them really sound very interesting to me.
An elemicin trip is very dreamy and I didn’t see any mention of that in those TMA reports. I can’t imagine someone taking a large dose of elemicin and not noticing that aspect of it. It’s the most dreamy psychedelic SWIM has ever experienced.
The other effect at higher doses that isn’t mentioned above with TMA is that elemicin causes a strong tingling sensation throughout the body that’s similar to many anesthetics, and is sort of like the bodily tingling sensations caused by high doses of Kava.
One of the effects of elemicin, claimed by a vendor, is it produces mild anesthesia, according to animal tests. I’m not sure of the accuracy of that information though. SWIM experiences tingling like that felt from some anesthetics, but not actual anesthesia.
So I’m inclined to believe that TMA is not formed from elemicin in humans and that either something else is or elemicin is itself active. Without having experienced TMA, it’s really hard to say though. Those trip reports above could be very misleading. They could all be from the same person. Who knows. It doesn’t say.
polytrip wrote:Maybe the effect harmala's have on the levels of neurotransmitters in you brain is synergistic with some of the effects of elemicin.
This is a possibility.
Nutmeg oil contains myristicin, which some tests show is an MAOI. The effects of myristicin alone are said to be relatively uninteresting, and not as psychedelic as whole nutmeg oil is. Nutmeg oil has effects a little similar to elemi oil, but the effects are very long lasting, 36 hours rather than 8. Perhaps the myristicin’s MAOI effects are prolonging the effects of the elemicin, and altering them, and it’s not really the main active but elemicin is. According to animal tests, elemicin is twice as potent as myrisitin. Harmaline can extend the effects of elemicin, so maybe myristicin is doing something similar?
On a side note, I’ve noticed that there are several places that state that myristicin is useful for PREVENTING liver damage! I’ve always read it caused liver damage in older texts, but several newer sources say the opposite. I’ve also seen myristicin promoted as an anti-cancer compound. What the hell!
I keep seeing conflicting information on myristicin. Myristicin is actually less toxic than caffeine. Again, what the hell! Look at this:
Myristicin oral toxicity (LD50): Oral-Rat 4260 mg/kg
Caffeine (LD50): Oral-Rat 192 mg/kg
Myristicin is 22 times LESS TOXIC than caffeine!
Why is the internet filled with such scare tactics about myristicin use when it’s less toxic than caffeine.
Older tests say myristicin causes liver damage, newer tests say it protects the liver from damage. The older tests use massive amounts, the newer tests use reasonable amounts of it.
In the animal tests that show adverse effects of myristicin that I’ve seen, they’ve used doses that are astronomical. It’s as if they were designed to specifically show toxicity. Everything, even water is toxic if enough is used.
I’m getting very suspicious. It’s almost as if there’s a conspiracy to get people to stay away from myristicin. Is this the DEA doing this maybe?
You may remember me as 69Ron. I was suspended years ago for selling bunk products under false pretenses. I try to sneak back from time to time under different names, but unfortunately, the moderators of the DMT-Nexus are infinitely smarter than I am.
If you see me at the waterpark, please say hello. I'll be the delusional 50 something in the American flag Speedo, oiling up his monster guns while responding to imaginary requests for selfies from invisible teenage girls.