Hello everyone,

My friend is on around 2mg of suboxone a day to manage opioid dependence. He is slowly tapering down but having a hard time. I am wondering what kind of experience he will get. I have read Strassman's book and it seems that endorphins are released (inc blood levels found). In my friend's case, he wouldn't be able to appreciate this aspect as suboxone is a partial blocker. How much do you think the possible feel-good rush has to do with the experience? Would it be more terrifying without it?

Most important, probably, is the question: do you guys feel some kind of rush which is similar to opiates or the feeling you get when exercising heavily?

I have hypothesized maybe an intense spice experience will maybe jolt him or scare him out of the addiction. Any comments? He is not up for oral spice as he doesn't have the time, and thinks maois might be bad for him mixed with his current medications.

Not even close to an opiate rush....

Being opiate dependant does not seem to affect the experience much (if any).

I have had some wonderfully euphoric experiences and was dependant on herion for many, many years. I am currently a kratom and sometimes a poppy pod user. Being off of the kratom/pods does not seem to affect the experience at all.

I have a very close friend who was a heroin addict for almost 8 years.
He now takes methadone daily and has been for like 4 years now. Slowly reducing his dosage every 1 to 2 months.
Opiates grab a hold of you so very quickly, and hang on a long, long time before your able to finally tear them off of you!!

Anyway, when I first started doing my extracting, he & I were copilots, exploring spiceland together.
He always seemed to be getting the same effects I was getting (entrance rush included), even though he had his daily methdone dose in him.
So I don't think the opiates chemically fuck with DMT in any significant way.
Now the negative stigma of opiate addiction can be a problem, if you've not removed yourself from it yet.


Unfortunately, the only thing that is going to "jolt" a person out of opiate addiction, is the addicted person finally getting tired of the whole ball of shit!!!
NOT just wanting to no longer be an addict.
This person, (& only this person alone!!) needs to be ready to get that shit out of their life forever!!!
No more of the, "Just this one time", or "I'll just do a little on the weekends".
Thats bullshit & only works until the end of that weekend!

So to sum it all up.
DMT will work just fine in an opiate addicted body, but the opiate addicted mind may not be ready for it yet.
and...
you can not scare, or jolt, or snap an opiate addicted person out of their addiction!!!
The addict has to want, or need to do it for themselves, or it will never last anyway!!!
With opiates, there is the physical addiction, which is an unbelievable, torturous pain while detoxing, but that is the easy part! They make Methadone, subboxin, etc... to help you take care of the withdrawal pains. Its the incessant cravings and rationalizations and bordom that seems to never go away!!
That is the hard part, staying away from all opiates forever!!
And it's a long, long road!! We're talking about the rest of your life!!
No "jolt" is ever going to happen!!
So the sooner the addict starts the detoxing process, the sooner the addict will be finished detoxing and can get started on the mental conditioning process, Which he/she may not ever finish with!!!

Doesn't seem quite worth the shitty, lame, so called "high" of opiates, does it?

For those of you who have never tried heroin or any other kind of opiate:
Do yourself a big favor and stay the fuck away from them!!!!!
Please remember,
People don't get addicted to opiates (heroin, etc...) because the high is so great.
People are addicted to opiates because their body stops making natural opiates (the body's natural pain killers) when a person starts over-filling the body with artificial opiates!! So when the person then tries to stop taking the drug (like heroin, etc..), they go into a horrible, physical withdrawal that is extreemly painful down into your muscles & bones!! No joke!! When these withdrawal symptoms finally go away (body starts to make natural opiates again), you then have to deal with unstoppable cravings, you'll talk yourself into doing something you know you don't want to do at all!!
Stupid, stupid habit to start!!!

Sorry I went on so long & got a bit off topic, I'm just a little passionate about this topic!!

WS

foaf is on 4mg of suboxone.Hasnt effected spice experience in any way,shape or form.In fact it has done nothing but motivate him to ween faster.IT's a bitch but 2mg is almost done11 He might want to look into kratom as a substitue AFTER he's jumped off his 2mg and is at baseline just to help w/ the minor discomfort he'll have for a week.Absolutely dont be concerned about it effecting the spice experience.

I had a hell of a time getting off the last 2mg of subonex. I was having to break up pills into 4ths. Even @ 1/2 mg it was difficult to make the jump to nothing.

I highly suggest kratom if you find that last jump to be a problem. You won't get high off the kratom, but I don't suggest using it for more than a week.

sound advice

thanks for the replies, my friend appreciates them. he has emailed dr. rick strassman himself about the topic and here is his reply:

"I most definitely would suggest being off suboxone for a while before trying DMT.

The anti-addictive stories I have heard regard ayahuasca rather than solely DMT. Smoked DMT is just too short to do much psychological work with—but of course, everyone’s trips are different and have variable impacts on one’s life. Nevertheless, don’t confuse matters by having suboxone on board when you have your DMT experience.



Best,


Rick Strassman"

He is still encouraged by your posts that it will be ok to do.

warrensaged, your clear message is also encouraging for him to clean his brain and get well.

about kratom, he used to be addicted to just it, doing it multiple times a day and said it was pretty much as bad as pill addiction at the amounts he ended up taking. unfortunately it contains a mu opioid receptor binder. but an ounce to ween sounds like a good idea if he can stick to that.

thanks and peace