There have been quite a few reports lately of people having bad experiences. Maybe these reports influenced the fact I had my first bad one, maybe not. My apologies for creating another thread along these lines, but I could do with some support to learn from the experience.

Most of the bad trip reports seem to stem from a reason, be it poor set or setting, being drunk, casual about what was being undertaken and so on and so forth.

That's part of the reason I am shaken by what happened with me. I had had a good day at work, was feeling very positive about life. I had done my ritual of tidying, exercise, quiet time, relaxation and contemplation of what I was trying to achieve. Even with hindsight, I consider I was in a good mindset. All was well.

Up to this point my dozen or so brekthroughs have been amazing, visual, loving. I have been smoking maybe once a fortnight, but more recently, the experiences have become slightly more foggy. The visuals have decreased and some of the benevolence faded. I put this down to smoking a spliff or two before the journey, so decided to cut that out. Last night I was in good shape.

Interestingly, before the main event, I loaded 40mg of 1:1 caapi leaf : spice, and smoked it perfectly, but there was almost zero effect. I put this down to maybe an uneven distribution of spice in my changa blend. (is this possible?) This slightly perturbed me, but none the less, afterwards, I loaded 75mg of changa (so 37.5mg spice), my "regular" breakthrough dose.

Immediately after clearing the bowl, I felt myself falling downward in a spiral. I lack the ability to articulate it, but I emerged in a grey / black place, with a huddle of beings that I can only describe as absolute evil waiting for me. Things turned very sour indeed. I became extremely scared. My fight or flight reaction kicked in. I wanted out. Somehow I managed to be aware enough to have an emergency talk with myself. "You can't escape, you are going to have to tough this out" I managed to keep myself from getting out of control and into total panic, but it was very, very close.

After maybe 2 or 3 mins, I opened my eyes and recognised parts of my room. This grounded me somewhat. I had gotten away from whatever it was. I felt as if I had escaped the jaws of the beast, and calmed myself back to baseline. I have crashed a car at 90mph and been beaten up by a group of 10 guys before, but never have I felt such primal fear as I did last night.

Many Nexians more wise and experienced than me state that you must always surrender. I simply could not surender to what I saw. I had to try and escape. Has anyone felt this same terror, and if so, is the way forward to surrender to it (dear God how do you do you surrender to that?) or do I put this down as a bad trip for reasons unknown? Is facing this evil necessary to emerge from the other side, (total ego loss maybe?), or was this a freak event?

I am going to take a long break to integrate etc. But I would like to go back, hopefully I can learn from this. Any help appreciated Nexus.

With much love.
A shaken 1664.

I think its only a matter of time for such trips to occur. It humbles you. Just gotta get back on that horse.

The part of friction you recognise as fear is the very gate to freedom. What do you have if you don't have fear?
Ease your self back, start with small doses of space then larger.

Allow space to consume you. And the only way to do that is to let-go and go by the very principles space goes by, that's being a limitless space for anything -nothingness. What contrasts with nothing? Theres no friction with nothing.

1664 - sorry to hear. Time, my friend, time. I know the fear of which you speak:



I don't know if reading someone else's descent will help you to reconcile yourself to your own, but here is mine, from a few months back. Some similarities, to say the least... there are two experiences on that page - i am referring to #4. Also scroll down page 2 for photos of the "beast".

Take comfort in the knowledge that it happens to us all, and solace in the notion that we have all learnt valuable lessons - and lived to fight another day!!

Good luck. PM me if you want to chat.

JBArk

@ jbark – I re-read your experience report, and not unlike my most difficult journey, there is no presence of evil, at least none that you mention. Ours seem to be more “existential crises”, but what 1664 reports is “absolute evil”.

@ 1664 – I’ve only had a few faint glimpses of what could be called “evil” in my experiences, so I don’t have any specific advice concerning how to deal with it. Actually, it seems that you handled it very well. You didn’t go into “total panic”, you managed to open your eyes and ground yourself somewhat, you recognized the need for integration, and you shared your experience with the Nexus. And, I assume, you haven’t been permanently harmed by the experience. If I ever have an experience like that, I hope I handle it as well as you.

To those who have encountered evil presences, how have you handled it? Has anyone surrendered to it or challenged it? If so, what happens next?

I don’t know why, but I feel that these experiences of evil and intense fear are “tests”, and that if we challenge or submit or in any other way confront the evil, we are allowed entry into a new “level”. I don’t believe that there is evil in “hyperspace”. Evil is a human thing. Our ability to experience evil is used to test our resolve in some way. Does that make any sense?

That's correct Gibran2. Thanks for rereading it. I guess evil isn't really in my working vocabulary, but if I were to attempt to define it I would have no choice but to refer back to that experience. There were however, no presences, or at least any I recall. So the "evil" i felt was a state, not an entity.

which, of course, is in line with my (ever-evolving) system of beliefs.

JBArk

Perhaps when one plays with fire one will get burnt. Thats the way i've felt about anyway.

I have to agree that my last rough journey was one of the single most terrifying experiences of my life.

No being ever materialized to me . I did feel the presence of something trying to pull me into it.
This force is so powerful it defies description.
Ever since that fear came up i've become obsessed with finding ways to better cope with that primal terror.

I believe that surrendering to this sounds good on paper. I don't think its possible to surrender to that level of experience.

it feels more like fighting for your life to me. The good news is that we can survive these experiences and come out stronger.

It is possible that it is a kind of right of passage to the next level of experience.
After a serious amount of time integrating I did finally go back and it was a great vivid positive experience.
I feel as a result of my "bad" experience i have a new respect for this substance.

I will only journey now under perfect conditions and never try to force it.

things can get tricky when you add the caapi to the mix.

I've noticed that when you take a good hit and nothing happens that can be a sign to stop or give it a rest.
I've experienced a similar thing before. The tendency is to push it and thats when the shit hits the fan.

I think you'll find positive reverberations from this experience

Felnik wrote:



If there is any (relatively) common thread to these experiences, you have found it. It did not happen in my case, but a very high percentage of bad reports I read begin with the phenomena you describe.

Strange, but i had remarked it as well.

JBArk

Yes, I agree. Sometimes I can break through on a small hit with 30mg and other times I can't feel anything on a few deep gulps of DMT vapor at 70mg. At that point I feel the universe is trying to tell me something and the message is to lay off for a while.

There is no evil, there is no good. The universe is beyond our primitive emotions, so events like this happen when one dances with the abyss. Do not worry. The love, the fear, it's all the same. It all just 'is'. It's all the same.

ABSOLUTELY.


IMO, Fear is indeed the test. I believe once u reach a certain level "set and setting" only matter so much (50-75%??). They are fucking with you. How much do you WANT this? HOW MUCH ARE U WILLING TO LOVE? Can u withstand utter and pure evil and turn it into something good, loving, and positive? How FUCKING strong is your heart?

this i believe is the test, and one i personally fail often... we all can learn that strength in time, i hope.


much love and bliss and friendship,

a

There is no surrendering to such a thing. It's consciousness stretching itself out to its near limit. Once you realize there's actually no you, it is realized that consciousness is going to go on its ride no matter what you do, it will play itself out, and max itself out. Knowing that there is no surrender, is in a way, a form of surrender, I suppose. If you choose to go back to that place knowing you're not going to be able to do anything about it, knowing there is nothing for you to gain.... it is freeing in a way. Perhaps the only way to "surrender" to such a thing is if you don't expect anything good to come out of surrendering. You can't surrender with the expectation that if you do surrender, you'll get peace, or knowledge, or get beyond that fear. You might surrender your entire life and the universe will just throw a pie your face and then send you to hell forever. The only reason you would surrender to such a thing is if you just absolutely HAVE to know what is really going on in this life, come hell or high water. And then it will be realized that the only reason you went on such a journey is because you had no choice, it was never you at all.... it was all that ever was.... it's the only show in town.

"I've noticed that when you take a good hit and nothing happens that can be a sign to stop or give it a rest."

That was my first thought as well, but I know I would have done the exact same as you. Too bad foresight isn't 20/20, eh?

Thinking back, were there any other clues during the first round that could have been telling you to wait? I haven't experienced a denial that I know of, so I don't know how one is supposed to know, other than just KNOWING. SWIM's wife was recently told "wait 3 days" but swim doesn't really know how she was told (audibly, telepathically, etc.)

Thank you for going through this and sharing for others...I know I will remember this if I get nothing from a dose!

Love and Gratitude to all!

etc.

So going beyond evil may mean an overcoming of a basic dualistic thinking - a way of being, a particular mode of operation/existence we are so accustomed to as humans that we can only very hardly imagine that there are other ways, until psychedelics let us experience these directly. But even then, the switch - from the dualistic way to the all-encompassing presence, emptiness or oneness - may not be a voluntarily act of our dualistic nature (how could thoughts lead to the cessation of thoughts?): the drug disrupts the operation of the apparatus and we get a chance to recognize and slip through one of the appearing gateways to this wider reality.

From this perspective, the appearance of extreme evil may mean one managed to get to the borders of the ego. Universal consciousness wants to "shed" the skin of the ego, the dualistic way of being, and one of its ways to do that is to put the ego into a sort of purgatory, where the dualities of good and evil are carried to the extreme.

That's for the theory. As for how to find the gateway when the "fight or flight" mode kicks in, I can only offer my own solution, which may not be universally applicable. I use the idea/archetype of death/rebirth as depicted in the Christian tradition (death on the cross). That has all the necessary elements, it's a perfectly orchestrated, total surrender, with no chance of compromise.

Thanks for all of the great responses people. It really is good to have somewhere where people who understand can lend support. It is appreciated. Thankyou. Truely.

@gibran2 That makes a lot of sense. Thoughts that have been disturbing me are: Either there is some kind of evil "out there" in hyperspace or whatever that place is, or this feeling was created from my mind and imagination. Logically one of these must be true.

I am not sure which is more disturbing.

In order to stay level headed I am going to choose to believe I was simply scared of the unknown.

I will read, with interest, all of the other posts later. For now I am going to go and enjoy a sunny day and forget about the whole thing.

Thanks again everyone.

SWIM had a similar experience when beings he couldn't see (only eyes) probed SWIM's insides. It was highly unpleasant and terrifying. It felt 'evil' and invasive.

SWIM just took a break for a while. Now SWIM reminds SWIM's self that nothing in that realm can cause any physical harm to SWIM and thats really about all it takes to solve. The only problem is when your so far gone that you forget to remind yourself of that.

It's ironic you mention that about your experience, I just had one like that which is posted on the first steps in hyperspace forum. I completely got my ass kicked but with good reason I suppose. I resisted as much as I could but in the end I just accepted what was happening and rode it out. Very uneasy and uncomfortable but I was too floored to even realize what was going on, I am a little reluctant to smoking anytime soon as well. Good luck with your future experiences.

Yeah burnt, I know what you mean. As soon as I stated my intention and focused I was back into a loop of terror, gotta have the right mindset and letting go no matter what.

Agreed - looking back there was a fraction of doubt in my mind. Lesson learnt.

Can you elaborate on what you mean re: Caapi? I was under the impression (from other posts) that Caapi in the mix added a synergy that assisted



haha, I had pie all over my face after this!! I think maybe I did / do have expectations about what spice "should" show me. No doubt this is not the way to approach it. This rings true for life in general as well - eg If I get rich I will be happy, if I eat well I will not get ill etc etc.



Yes. If I am absolutely honest with myself I had reservations about going in. (after the 20mg zero effect dose) However, as I described, I was in a good place in general. I had everything set, my preparation was as good as it could be. Because of this I labelled this nagging doubt as paranoia, (maybe a poor choice of word) whereas I should have listened to this "sixth sense".

I have experienced ego loss in the sense that I no longer identify an "I" but just become the experience itself. I dont know if this is true ego loss or not. I have read many posts about people perceiving death in hyperspace. Can anyone elaborate on the process of getting there? I'm interested to know if I had chosen to surrender to this huddled bunch of hooded, child eating monsters if I would have felt this death phenomenon and emerged elsewhere afterwards. (I realise this goes against what I said re: Frog9's post, but I reserve the right to contradict myself!!)

Thanks for the posts everyone.

Sorry as I know this has been asked a dozen times before, but a search did not yeild my answer - any chance this could this be down to N-Oxide? My changa is now approx 5 months old - it has been stored in an airtight glass vial.

FWIW, my 'negative experience' (see post here) was after a failed launch and some mapacho/passion flower. I loaded up about 35mg and it didn't take me very far. I then reloaded about 10-15 minutes later and got more than I bargained for. The passion flower was smoked in a cigarette with mullein and mapacho a few minutes before the first attempt. Both the failed launch/relaunch scenario and the pre-dosing with a MAOI seem to be somewhat common in these situations. I wonder if it's just the result of going on a heavier journey than you were expecting.

Very little N-oxide was involved here.