DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 5826 Joined: 09-Jun-2008 Last visit: 08-Sep-2010 Location: USA
|
endlessness wrote:69ron wrote:
You can be pretty damn sure it’s 5-MeO-DMT if:
A ) the melting point is that of 5-MeO-DMT.
B ) it’s active sublingually, orally, and by vaporization in the dose range of 5-MeO-DMT.
C ) It tastes and smells like 5-MeO-DMT.
D ) It’s duration of effects matches 5-MeO-DMT.
E ) It’s effects profile match that of 5-MeO-DMT.
F ) You have it tested professionally.
If all but F match exactly, the likelihood that you have 5-MeO-DMT is still extremely high.
yep I also agree, thats why I said subjective experience by itself could indicate but wasnt absolute proof and thats why I asked if youve done a melting point or other tests with what you extracted from chaliponga. Did you (or SWIY), and it perfectly matched the 5-meo data? Thats interesting! Yes, SWIM found A-E matched perfectly, melting point and all. endlessness wrote:Another question im wondering: How much percentage was there of the isolated alkaloid (or alkaloids) that are being considered as 5-meo-dmt, more or less, in the chali extracted? It varies a lot. It's too hard to give any real concrete answer. Each batch was different. There's usually 2-4 times as much DMT present. In one case there was more 5-MeO-DMT present. It varies too much. endlessness wrote:btw, out of curiosity, how was it separated from the dmt, so that you could smell/taste it separately? That's very easy. You put your DMT/5-MeO-DMT mix in a small beaker placed on an accurate digital hotplate, and then you bring the hotplate to about 100 C. If it doesn't vaporize, bring it up to 105 C, and wait until the temperature stabilizes. If nothing vaporizes, bring it up again 5 C, and so on until all the DMT boils and vaporizes away. Once all of the DMT boils and vaporize away you're left with the 5-MeO-DMT. Of course you lose your DMT this way. Of course, using the boil-off method leaves behind all molecules that boil at a temperature higher than DMT. If there is bufotenine present, it will also remain. Unlike DMT and 5-MeO-DMT, bufotenine doesn't have a strong taste and so it won't affect the flavor much. Also, bufotenine is pretty much odorless, 5-MeO-DMT and DMT have a strong odor. Another thing is that freebase 5-MeO-DMT burns your mouth. Freebase bufotenine doesn't. 5-MeO-DMT tastes more like DMT than bufotenine. It's hard to describe the flavor, it's not the same as DMT, its more "medicinal", and not as strange as DMT. SWIM cannot detect bufotenine present in any of his chaliponga extracts. It's probably there but present in very small amounts. You may remember me as 69Ron. I was suspended years ago for selling bunk products under false pretenses. I try to sneak back from time to time under different names, but unfortunately, the moderators of the DMT-Nexus are infinitely smarter than I am.
If you see me at the waterpark, please say hello. I'll be the delusional 50 something in the American flag Speedo, oiling up his monster guns while responding to imaginary requests for selfies from invisible teenage girls.
|
|
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 219 Joined: 28-May-2009 Last visit: 21-May-2018 Location: Mediterranean
|
Hi 69ron 69ron wrote:
A lack of a finding can mean:
A ) they didn’t look for the item (this is pretty common).
B ) flaws in their equipment or methods used made it impossible to find the item.
C ) they found it but didn’t take note of it (this is pretty common).
D ) they had misidentified material (this happens quite a lot).
E ) the plant material was too old (5-MeO-DMT degrades pretty fast. In Virola theiordora resin that isn't properly treated, enzymes present in the resin completely destroy the 5-MeO-DMT within a few hours.)
F ) it wasn’t there in the plant material.
I prefer the Occam's razor explanation,which is obviously the F). With all these studies I find it hard to believe that the analysts were so careless so not to find it. Furthermore they have found the substance in other species and even in the bark of Chaliponga, so this rules out A), B, C) and E). As for D), I do believe that the scientific teams the work in these studies have informed botanists with them, which is quite likely 69ron wrote:
You can be pretty damn sure it’s 5-MeO-DMT if:
A ) the melting point is that of 5-MeO-DMT.
B ) it’s active sublingually, orally, and by vaporization in the dose range of 5-MeO-DMT.
C ) It tastes and smells like 5-MeO-DMT.
D ) It’s duration of effects matches 5-MeO-DMT.
E ) It’s effects profile match that of 5-MeO-DMT.
F ) You have it tested professionally.[/b]
As for A. it implies that the analyst has a melting point apparatus. Something not on avery home lab (not in mine, at least.) Also do remember that actually DMT and 5-MeO-DMT have very close melting points, so the equipment used better be good! As for the smell, it is not so terribly different from DMT. lab grade 5-MeO-DMT has that plasticky DMT scent so typical of other freebase tryptamines. You are right that the effects of smoked 5-MeO are markedly different from DMT, simply miles apart, as for sublingual YMMV, but tests done by friends on lab grade 5-MeO-DMT failed to get but the most basic experience (this without any MAOI involved). On any case, given the alleged instability of 5-meo, it may decompose into something during the extraction, which may or may not be active and may or may not have similar qualities to this compound. This said, there is no way around F) whether you test it and are certain of it, or you do not and base your conclusions in ultimately subjective experiences. My main point in doubting your conclusions is not to start or continue an endless argument. I truly respect you here ron, you are clearly one of the most experienced people in the Nexus, that's for sure. I'm just genuinely concerned about the recklessness of some people going through this thread that, after reading your posts on how chaliponga is great, may consume pure 5-meo-dmt purchased from an RC dealer and die or get into the hospital. If you want bad publicity that's clearly the way to go! As you mentioned, there is a long history of using chaliponga in Ayahuasca, and there is this: http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=55407and this http://www.ingentaconnec...000029/00000008/art00014There are not many reports of oral 5-Meo-DMT with MAOIs, the few that exist are just bad and painful experiences, nothing like the white-outs described by James Oroc and many others when the substance is smoked. No matter how you see it, 5-MeO-DMT when consumed orally is dangerous, deadly dangerous. My point is just that a chaliponga decoction should be OK in moderate doses (< 15 g), but 20 mg of orally consumed 5-MeO-DMT with a MAOI is not OK.
"The elfclowns of hyperspace are already juggling in the center ring. Hurry! Hurry!" T.M
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 5826 Joined: 09-Jun-2008 Last visit: 08-Sep-2010 Location: USA
|
Picatris, you didn't offer anything new for me to argue with. I know 5-MeO-DMT is there and I already addressed the reason why, and you don't find that good enough. That's fine. I am willing to bet that even if I had several batches analyzed with highly sophisticated instruments and posted the results and proved it was there, you'd still find some reason to believe my tests were not valid. There's little point in this argument. Either you believe the tests that find it present or you don't. The fact is that some tests find it present. You cannot argue against that fact. SWIM is saying it's there in pretty much all chaliponga. You can argue against that. That's a valid argument. But I already stated my part of this argument. There's little else to be said. I flat out don't believe those tests showing it's not there are accurate. Just because someone publishes a test doesn't mean they did it properly. Picatris, you're trying to make a point that is really unrelated to my argument. You're trying to say chaliponga is safe to use with an MAOI because it doesn't contain 5-MeO-DMT or it just contains traces of it. I never said 5-MeO-DMT was safe or safe to use with an MAOI. It's very potent even without an MAOI and can kill you. There's nothing safe about drugs of that magnitude. You're arguing the wrong point with me there. If you're taking what I'm saying to mean that, you're reading your own meanings into my words. I'm arguing that chaliponga contains 5-MeO-DMT. I'm not arguing about 5-MeO-DMT being safe. It can be used safely though. But it's not without it's dangers. Its very potent and you can easily overdose on it with or without an MAOI. You're making it sound like its only dangerous to combine with an MAOI, and that's just not true. It's very dangerous taken on its own if the dose is enough. Some shamans taking large amounts of virola theiodora snuff without an MAOI have died from 5-MeO-DMT overdose. This is fact. 5-MeO-DMT needs to be used in the proper doses. It's very potent stuff and dangerous no matter how you use it. You may remember me as 69Ron. I was suspended years ago for selling bunk products under false pretenses. I try to sneak back from time to time under different names, but unfortunately, the moderators of the DMT-Nexus are infinitely smarter than I am.
If you see me at the waterpark, please say hello. I'll be the delusional 50 something in the American flag Speedo, oiling up his monster guns while responding to imaginary requests for selfies from invisible teenage girls.
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 219 Joined: 28-May-2009 Last visit: 21-May-2018 Location: Mediterranean
|
69ron wrote:
I am willing to bet that even if I had several batches analyzed with highly sophisticated instruments and posted the results and proved it was there, you'd still find some reason to believe my tests were not valid. There's little point in this argument. Either you believe the tests that find it present or you don't.
picatris wrote:No it isn't 69ron wrote:Yes it is picatris wrote:No it isn't 69ron wrote:Yes it is picatris wrote:No it isn't 69ron wrote:Yes it is picatris wrote:No it isn't 69ron wrote:Yes it is picatris wrote:No it isn't
Sorry, couldn't help it  More seriously. If I could see a GC-MS or HPLC results of an analysis of chaliponga that would show 5-MeO-DMT is there in significant amounts I would readily concede. I have been wrong before and for me it's always a pleasure to know new things. Only when proven wrong can one actually learn and grow. That's one of my life stances
"The elfclowns of hyperspace are already juggling in the center ring. Hurry! Hurry!" T.M
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 5826 Joined: 09-Jun-2008 Last visit: 08-Sep-2010 Location: USA
|
Yeah, I feel the same about this argument. It’s going back and forth, and without the hard core evidence, you just have to take what I’m saying with a grain of salt. If I paid to have several batches professionally analyzed and gave you the record of the transaction and all, so you could verify it, it still wouldn’t be 100% proof. It’s always possible that the batches analyzed come from a specific strain that’s high in 5-MeO-DMT and so the test data are skewed in my favor. I’m sure, like all plants, there are strains of chaliponga that exist that are void of 5-MeO-DMT. Some probably exist that are void of DMT. SWIM has only experienced strains with substantial amounts of 5-MeO-DMT present. SWIM buys chaliponga from only a few vendors, so anything he says on this subject should be viewed in that context. It’s possible he only buys from places that sell strains high in 5-MeO-DMT and is therefore viewing this from a narrow perspective. It’s possible all the chaliponga SWIM has purchased over the years is from the exact same genetic strain, from the same exact source grown in the same part of the world. You may remember me as 69Ron. I was suspended years ago for selling bunk products under false pretenses. I try to sneak back from time to time under different names, but unfortunately, the moderators of the DMT-Nexus are infinitely smarter than I am.
If you see me at the waterpark, please say hello. I'll be the delusional 50 something in the American flag Speedo, oiling up his monster guns while responding to imaginary requests for selfies from invisible teenage girls.
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
 
Posts: 3555 Joined: 13-Mar-2008 Last visit: 07-Jul-2024 Location: not here
|
Quote:I flat out don't believe those tests showing it's not there are accurate. Just because someone publishes a test doesn't mean they did it properly. Does anyone have any of these studies or references to them? SWIM can check out the methods and see how well they were done or if they even were looking for 5meodmt. There are lots of reasons why a compound would not be detected. But I can't speculate without seeing the paper.
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 219 Joined: 28-May-2009 Last visit: 21-May-2018 Location: Mediterranean
|
burnt wrote:Quote:I flat out don't believe those tests showing it's not there are accurate. Just because someone publishes a test doesn't mean they did it properly. Does anyone have any of these studies or references to them? SWIM can check out the methods and see how well they were done or if they even were looking for 5meodmt. There are lots of reasons why a compound would not be detected. But I can't speculate without seeing the paper. Hi Burnt, here's a link to a 1984 study by Dennis McKennamentions traces of bufotenine but no 5-MeO-DMT. It is fairly complete in the description of identification and extraction procedure. Albeit not directly my area, it seems quite appropriate. [moderators, perhaps these last posts could be moved to a thread on Diplopterys Cabrerana, as we are further and further from the initial thread topic. Just a thought]
"The elfclowns of hyperspace are already juggling in the center ring. Hurry! Hurry!" T.M
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 14191 Joined: 19-Feb-2008 Last visit: 28-Nov-2024 Location: Jungle
|
I moved the discussion from the other thread on 5-meo-dmt into this new topic, as suggested by picatris
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 3555 Joined: 13-Mar-2008 Last visit: 07-Jul-2024 Location: not here
|
Well the only potential problem I can see with that study is they used NaOH. However they only made the pH 8-9 so if 5meodmt is unstable in that pH it wouldn't have made it. Or its specifically they hydroxides that make it unstable.
Other then that there methods are fine and they report no 5meodmt. However they only use one clone of this species as well so that could be another part of the problem. If they could find traces of bufotenine they should have been able to observe 5meodmt as well unless for some reason the pH was a problem.
Any other studies on this species?
The only reference to 5meodmt being in this species is the: encyclopedia of psychoactive plants although I have no idea where that author got this information from.
I am getting skeptical. Although I need more information before any conclusions can be drawn.
Ron any info on how 5meodmt and dmt was separated in preparations SWIY observed 5meodmt in?
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 4639 Joined: 16-May-2008 Last visit: 24-Dec-2012 Location: A speck of dust in endless space, like everyone else.
|
picatris wrote:
There are not many reports of oral 5-Meo-DMT with MAOIs, the few that exist are just bad and painful experiences, nothing like the white-outs described by James Oroc and many others when the substance is smoked. No matter how you see it, 5-MeO-DMT when consumed orally is dangerous, deadly dangerous. My point is just that a chaliponga decoction should be OK in moderate doses (< 15 g), but 20 mg of orally consumed 5-MeO-DMT with a MAOI is not OK.
I don't think any reasonable person could disagree with this. 5-MeO-DMT could be active in doses less than a milligram, if combined with a MAOI (many orally active tryptamines are easily three times as strong when combined with enough MAOI's. 5-MeO-DMT is active in 1 to 2 mg, so in ayahuasca it could easily be active in maybe 0.3 to 0.7mg). Without a MAOI, it would be hard to say how much of it is needed exactly if taken orally, but the margins are too small for this to be truly safe. A few milligrams too much must be extremely unpleasant. In ayahuasca brews, less than 10 grams of chaliponga is needed for a strong experience. Many people would even need only 5 grams for a truly mindblowing experience. If you would want to ingest 20 mg of 5-MeO-DMT through chaliponga-ayahuasca, you would maybe even need over 50 grams of chaliponga. No reasonable human being would ever consider doing something like that. Saying that taking 20mg's of 5-MeO-DMT orally with a MAOI is very dangerous, doesn't equal '5-MeO-DMT with a MAOI is dangerous'. LSD is active in less than a milligram. Taking 20 mg of LSD is probably dangerous as well. That doesn't mean that taking LSD is automatically dangerous. This is exactly the same thing. In combination with a MAOI, 5-MeO-DMT could be active in amounts equaly low as the amounts LSD is active in. 20mg is easily 10 times too much. Another reason why taking 5-MeO-DMT could be dangerous if taken with a MAOI, is because it is active in such small amounts that you can easily take too much. That doesn't automatically has to mean you're physically in danger, but since most scales have a margin of 2mg, you could take 2mg's more than you intent to take without knowing it. With 5-MeO-DMT taken in pharmahuasca, this could be way too much already and lead to a very unpleasant experience. If we assume that there actually IS 5-MeO-DMT present in chaliponga, we still don't know in what amounts it is usually taken, when consumed in ayahuasca brews. I think that very little of it is needed.
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 465 Joined: 18-Jan-2008 Last visit: 30-Apr-2024
|
Taken from TIHKAL: Quote:Harmaline with 5-MeO-DMT
(with 70 mg harmaline, 10 mg 5-MeO-DMT [0 min]). "I felt changes in pressure around the eyes at 18 minutes, and there was a floating feeling when walking. I had peaked at an hour and a half, probably at a plus three, with no visuals, no emotionals, no intellectuals, no negative, no positive. A little nausea. I am not sure why I am at a +++ but I am. By the 2 hour point I am coming down. At three hours, I noticed a complete change of character, the harmaline was beginning to kick in. This grew in intensity for several hours, with quite a bit of nausea. This was fully equivalent to 300 mg. harmaline alone, but without the physiological noise. At 12 hours I got a little sleep with a lot of dreams."
(with 80 mg harmaline, 10 mg 5-MeO-DMT) "This was conceptually very active. Extremely rewarding. Remarkable difference from the harmaline alone, or the tryptamine alone, neither of which would have been active taken this way, orally."
(with 150 mg harmaline, 25 mg 5-MeO-DMT [60 min]) "In about 15 minutes I began to feel the typical effects of 5-MeO-DMT, a gradually building emotion of solid, somewhat boiling, turbulent feeling. I began to feel like vomiting so I did so, several times. Waves of the inner feeling would approach completely removing my awareness of the physical world, but it never reached that point as it does when I have smoked 12 milligrams of 5-MeO-DMT alone. The experience was quite intense but I never felt a great deal of fear. I consciously debated whether or not to smoke some 5-MeO-DMT in order to break through this 'middle' level of experience into a complete transcendent state as I had experienced in the past. But the complexities of asking for the pipe and managing to smoke it seemed too much, even with assistance. I abandoned the idea.
"I started to come 'down' into a more differentiated consciousness, and the first thing I felt was a powerful, aggressive sexual feeling. I was not wearing any clothes and I spent a long time, over an hour, writhing around, occasionally uttering phrases of one or three or four words of a very hostile and/or sexual nature. I remember saying I hated my sitter (a female) and God, but it was quite clear that it was the sexual/maternal image of the sitter that I hated as something that I desired and felt dependent upon while resenting that I needed something I did not have within myself. The next phase found me physically calm and quiet. Finally, after four hours, I felt sleepy and comfortable. I ate well, and was in a good mood.
" I do not feel that taking a higher dose orally would necessarily have pushed me through to the state achieved by smoking because the onset was so, so slow. I don't think I'll repeat this combination." mistakes were made
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 5826 Joined: 09-Jun-2008 Last visit: 08-Sep-2010 Location: USA
|
burnt wrote:Ron any info on how 5meodmt and dmt was separated in preparations SWIY observed 5meodmt in? I already posted this. It is very simple. This is how SWIM does it. You simply boil off the DMT at around 80 C. The 5-MeO-DMT doesn't boil off at that temperature. It has a melting point of 69-70 C. It boils off after the DMT. So you put the DMT/5-MeO-DMT mix in a 10 ml beaker placed on a digital hotplate set to 100 C and wait for the DMT to boil off. Note that the temperature in the beaker will be about 80 C, and not 100 C. It's always cooler than the hotplate surface. If the DMT doesn't boil off (from inaccurate temperature settings), then increase the temperature by 5 C every 5 minutes until it boils off completely. That leaves behind melted 5-MeO-DMT. Don’t leave it there too long after the DMT boils away or the 5-MeO-DMT will become 5-MeO-DMT-N-Oxide, a brown sticky mess. I’m seriously tired of this debate. I said enough on the subject. SWIM finds 5-MeO-DMT is present in nearly all his chaliponga, and all his Virola theiodora. End of story. If you guys don’t believe that, that’s fine. I don’t want to argue anymore about this. This subject is now boring me to death at this point. I have no more to add. So you guys debate this back and forth. And please don’t include me in this argument anymore. I don’t want to repeat what I already said many times. It’s pointless. You may remember me as 69Ron. I was suspended years ago for selling bunk products under false pretenses. I try to sneak back from time to time under different names, but unfortunately, the moderators of the DMT-Nexus are infinitely smarter than I am.
If you see me at the waterpark, please say hello. I'll be the delusional 50 something in the American flag Speedo, oiling up his monster guns while responding to imaginary requests for selfies from invisible teenage girls.
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 219 Joined: 28-May-2009 Last visit: 21-May-2018 Location: Mediterranean
|
69ron wrote:
This is how SWIM does it. You simply boil off the DMT at around 80 C. The 5-MeO-DMT doesn't boil off at that temperature. It has a melting point of 69-70 C. It boils off after the DMT. So you put the DMT/5-MeO-DMT mix in a 10 ml beaker placed on a digital hotplate set to 100 C and wait for the DMT to boil off. Note that the temperature in the beaker will be about 80 C, and not 100 C. It's always cooler than the hotplate surface. If the DMT doesn't boil off (from inaccurate temperature settings), then increase the temperature by 5 C every 5 minutes until it boils off completely. That leaves behind melted 5-MeO-DMT. Don’t leave it there too long after the DMT boils away or the 5-MeO-DMT will become 5-MeO-DMT-N-Oxide, a brown sticky mess.
Yes we are all tired of this discussion, but I believe it's for the greater good. I have tracked an important methodological flaw in your tests. The boiling point of DMT is much higher than that. Probably around 300C. See this thread: https://www.dmt-nexus.me...spx?g=posts&m=147013So you believe you are vaporizing DMT while in truth just some oils and other residues are being vaporized. Your remaining product is probably mainly DMT.
"The elfclowns of hyperspace are already juggling in the center ring. Hurry! Hurry!" T.M
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 5826 Joined: 09-Jun-2008 Last visit: 08-Sep-2010 Location: USA
|
Picatris, I'm not going to rejoin this argument. Attempting to bring me back into it with that BS is not going to work. The boiling point of DMT is not 300 C. It does vary by it's crystal structure, but not much beyond the highly published 80 C. All of the references I've seen from professionals give the boiling point of freebase DMT as 80 C or something similar. If you're going to say they are all wrong, that is a very bold statement, and even worse than me saying the accounts of no 5-MeO-DMT being found in chaliponga are all wrong. This is pointless arguing. Don't you see that? MERCK INDEX DMT BOILING POINT: 60-80°CRegardless of that, you increase the hotplate by 5 C every 5 minutes, until the DMT boils off. So you will eventually hit the boiling point of your particular crystals, which is evident by both the smell and by inhaling it if you get enough because you will trip on it. Anyway, if you’re to pick and choose which documents have the correct DMT boiling point, how can we argue about this? You cannot prove to me or anyone which document is right and which is wrong without performing a test right in front of our eyes. Right? So again, this is a pointless argument. You may remember me as 69Ron. I was suspended years ago for selling bunk products under false pretenses. I try to sneak back from time to time under different names, but unfortunately, the moderators of the DMT-Nexus are infinitely smarter than I am.
If you see me at the waterpark, please say hello. I'll be the delusional 50 something in the American flag Speedo, oiling up his monster guns while responding to imaginary requests for selfies from invisible teenage girls.
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 4639 Joined: 16-May-2008 Last visit: 24-Dec-2012 Location: A speck of dust in endless space, like everyone else.
|
69ron, based on your experience with pure 5-MeO-DMT, how much of the stuff do you estimate, is there in chaliponga?
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 219 Joined: 28-May-2009 Last visit: 21-May-2018 Location: Mediterranean
|
Hi 69ron, 69ron wrote:Picatris, I'm not going to rejoin this argument. Attempting to bring me back into it with that BS is not going to work. The boiling point of DMT is not 300 C. It does vary by it's crystal structure, but not much beyond the highly published 80 C.
All of the references I've seen from professionals give the boiling point of freebase DMT as 80 C or something similar. If you're going to say they are all wrong, that is a very bold statement, and even worse than me saying the accounts of no 5-MeO-DMT being found in chaliponga are all wrong.
This is pointless arguing. Don't you see that?
MERCK INDEX DMT BOILING POINT: 60-80°C
The Merck Index is wrong, even Shulgin says that! read the thread I pointed out. Or at least follow this link: http://www.chemistrydail...istry/Dimethyltryptamine160C at 0.8hPa is very low pressure, so at NTP (which I assume are your lab conditions) it should be clearly higher DMT is a complex molecule, I would be very surprised if it vaporized at temperatures below water. Are there any organic compounds with 10-12 Carbons that boil at such low temperatures?
"The elfclowns of hyperspace are already juggling in the center ring. Hurry! Hurry!" T.M
|
|
|
Kalt und Heiß, Schwarz und Rot, Kürper und Geist, Liebe und Chaos
Posts: 4661 Joined: 02-Jun-2008 Last visit: 30-Apr-2022
|
69ron wrote:This is how SWIM does it. You simply boil off the DMT at around 80 C. The 5-MeO-DMT doesn't boil off at that temperature. It has a melting point of 69-70 C. It boils off after the DMT. So you put the DMT/5-MeO-DMT mix in a 10 ml beaker placed on a digital hotplate set to 100 C and wait for the DMT to boil off. Note that the temperature in the beaker will be about 80 C, and not 100 C. It's always cooler than the hotplate surface. If the DMT doesn't boil off (from inaccurate temperature settings), then increase the temperature by 5 C every 5 minutes until it boils off completely. That leaves behind melted 5-MeO-DMT. Don’t leave it there too long after the DMT boils away or the 5-MeO-DMT will become 5-MeO-DMT-N-Oxide, a brown sticky mess. Ron, is SWIY sure that he actually tried this method? It is just recently that you brought forward this separation tek, whereas there are quite some discussions around (albeit older) questioning about 5meo - dmt separation where you did not report that method. You have made this post here, on the 10 March 2010. 69ron wrote:goldenbloo wrote:greymatter wrote:this is all very interesting, but still not exactly the chem process that i was looking for
i like both 5meo and N,N...and have mixed them together but my curiosty is the chemistry
thanx They have radically different melting points. Perhaps that could be somehow employed? They can be vaporized at different temperatures and easily separated that way. I believe an easy way to do that is to put the two in a solvent that boils at 80 C like DMT does and another solvent that boils at like 160 C or so. The DMT will carry over with the solvent that boils at 80 C and I think it will condense with the solvent, but the 5-MeO-DMT will not because it vaporizes at a much higher temperature, I think something like 160 C? As soon as the distillation temperature goes up to about 100 C, you turn the system off. I’m not sure if this will work in reality though. If the DMT doesn’t condense with the solvent, it will all be lost, but at least you’ll be left with pure 5-MeO-DMT in the remaining solvent. There, you just propose this method of separation saying that you believe it could work. So I presume that the tek that you now claim to have tried is very very recent. But on the other hand, you make claims of 5meo and dmt contents in chaliponga long before this post long ago. Where do you base the past estimations? Are they untrue? Which tek was used to separate the 5meo and dmt in SWIY's previous (that is, pre the evaporation tek advance)? Also, do you have pictures of the procedure SWIY claims to have done? It would be very interesting to see how this tek works. Too bad many people do not have a 5meo/dmt mixture to try and see whether what you report is actually true and that it works as you say. In any case however, since you are the only one to try it and since there is no feedback, people should doubt about the validity of this method. It sounds OK in theory but in practise it may not be as successful as you present it to be. Need to calculate between salts and freebases? Click here! Need to calculate freebase or salt percentage at a given pH? Click here!
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 5826 Joined: 09-Jun-2008 Last visit: 08-Sep-2010 Location: USA
|
Picatris, the boiling point at that site is wrong. If it was that high standard electric vaporizers set on low wouldn't work for DMT, but they do. If you're going to use inaccurate data to back up your argument, what's the point? Infundibulum seams to think I’m lying. That’s fine. Believe what you like. I'm tired of arguing about this. You guys argue amongst yourselves. Read what I already posted. I have nothing more to add to this argument. How many times do I need to say that? You guys keep asking me stuff even though I don't want to argue about this anymore. WHY IS THAT? You may remember me as 69Ron. I was suspended years ago for selling bunk products under false pretenses. I try to sneak back from time to time under different names, but unfortunately, the moderators of the DMT-Nexus are infinitely smarter than I am.
If you see me at the waterpark, please say hello. I'll be the delusional 50 something in the American flag Speedo, oiling up his monster guns while responding to imaginary requests for selfies from invisible teenage girls.
|
|
|
Kalt und Heiß, Schwarz und Rot, Kürper und Geist, Liebe und Chaos
Posts: 4661 Joined: 02-Jun-2008 Last visit: 30-Apr-2022
|
69ron wrote:Infundibulum seams to think I’m lying. That’s fine. Believe what you like. Nice try, but this is not a reply I am afraid. Why didn't you answer the questions I asked you? From the sequence of your posts and your claims it appears that there are some obscure points. Do you care to clarify them or you're OK with the reputation of a dubious poster and a probable liar? 69ron wrote:I'm tired of arguing about this. You guys argue amongst yourselves. Read what I already posted. I have nothing more to add to this argument. How may times do I need to say that? This only makes things worse for you I believe. How do you claim that "This is how SWIM does it" in a method that just in March was supposed to be nothing more than an idea? I don't doubt that you did the 5meo/dmt separation as you claim, but it appears that this must be very new observation. On the contrary you make claims of the 5meo and dmt contents of chaliponga since 2008. Are these claims true? Quote:You guys keep asking me stuff even though I don't want to argue about this anymore. WHY IS THAT? We keep on asking because your arguments and methods seem dubious. And we try to have a rational discussion about the evidence of 5meo in chaliponga here. Got problem with that? You claimed to have isolated 5meo from chaliponga (where everybody else fails) Need to calculate between salts and freebases? Click here! Need to calculate freebase or salt percentage at a given pH? Click here!
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 5826 Joined: 09-Jun-2008 Last visit: 08-Sep-2010 Location: USA
|
More BS to try to get me to argue some more. Infundibulum, I need to state this again apparently. You seem like you didn’t get my point previously. I'm tired of arguing about this. You guys argue amongst yourselves.Try reading again SLOWLY. Maybe you'll get the point: I...AM...TIRED...OF...ARGUING...ABOUT...THIS.Maybe in lower case you can read it: i am tired of arguing about this.Maybe backwards: this about arguing of tired am IMaybe you can't see well. Here you go: I'm tired of arguing about this. You guys argue amongst yourselves.Maybe another language will get the point across? I wonder just what you need to get my point. Maybe a case study on how I'm tired of arguing about this!You may remember me as 69Ron. I was suspended years ago for selling bunk products under false pretenses. I try to sneak back from time to time under different names, but unfortunately, the moderators of the DMT-Nexus are infinitely smarter than I am.
If you see me at the waterpark, please say hello. I'll be the delusional 50 something in the American flag Speedo, oiling up his monster guns while responding to imaginary requests for selfies from invisible teenage girls.
|