Based on what I've seen so far, its futile to explain it to you.

If you are white in the US, you have advantages that are undeniable. It's just the way it is. This is not to say that there are not successful minorities, as there clearly are. But if you look at the averages and generalities, its pretty clear we don't have a even playing field. Hell, being white isn't a guarantee, either. I view you laizes-faire Libertarians in 2 ways. Naive yet well-meaning, or willfully evil and ignorant. Thus far, I assume you to be one of the former sort.

I saw your little insult there, and I chose to ignore it. You're taking enough of a beating and I dont want to pile on.

I do not know if it is more addictive than powder, it may very well be, but I don't really see how that is ultimately relevant. I only remember that there was the scourge of crack back in the 1980's. There were bloody turf wars over it in LA between the Crips and the Bloods, and there was a backlash against it and tough penalties were imposed. So yeah, it was racist, a direct result of trying to control black gangs.

I believe there should be no drug laws. The War on Drugs has been an abject failure, and has only served to enrichen drug cartels and further violence by making the illegal drug trade mroe profitable.

I don't believe there should be any laws against victimless "crimes." And no, what I choose to do with my own body does not make me a victim in any way.

The simplest way to resolve this is to look at it from a distance and compare several countries.
If social mobility is higher in scandinavian countries and poverty is lower there while the economy is doing better, it proves that the american way of looking at it is wrong because: you must expect poor people in america and in scandinavia to have the same mental and physiscal capabilities and the same willingness to work. there is no reason to assume that poor people from america are lazier then people from poor families in scandinavia. If you agree with that last statement, that people from poor families in america are most likely not lazier than people from poor families in scandinavia, than you have to agree that if more people manage to work their way out of poverty in scandinavia than in the USA, in this regard scandinavian societys are working better.
That's the point: if there is less poverty in the scandinavian countries and the economy is doing better then apparently working pays of more in scandinavian countries than in the USA. You can only disagree with this if you think that scandinavians are naturally working harder than americans.

Likely older than me? I doubt it but thank you Although I don't see how that is relevant. I understand you feel EG has a better understanding of our system because it is more closely aligned with yours. Honest human feelings. No need to apologize but I am not misinformed as you suggest. I am a student of economics and live and breath it on a daily basis. Read through this thread, people have tried to impose the idea that I suggest an "unregulated free market". Please can someone quote that from me? No.... anyone?



Again, I am not misunderstanding the crash. I was a part of the crash, I was their in glory and the ruble. I predicted the crash just like so many others around me. It wasn't hard to see, where there is smoke there will be fire. HUD forced FNMA to keep 50% of its portfolio to unqualified borrowers. That is a fact, I saw it with my own eyes. I made a lot of money because of it. This goes all the way back to the Carter era but continued through Bush 1, Clinton and Bush the return. This original law evolved through time and eventually became the hole that sunk the ship. Forcing FNMA to service and fund 50% under performing unqualified loans is financial suicide.

I'm not sure why you say the government cant force a corporation to do anything. That is blatantly not true. The government can force a corporations to do anything and do so on a daily basis.

I agree with you that the SEC changing their capital requirements was a horrible move made only for shear greed. But how do you think that caused the collapse? The only time that became a factor was AFTER the collapse and they had to foreclose on the notes but had no money. It didn't allow them to make money out of thin air..... it allowed them to borrow MORE money than they should have to lend to people that didn't qualify in the first place. So, yes, that was a integral part of the collapse but impossible to be the CAUSE of the collapse. The cause was people getting mortgages that didn't qualify then not paying on those mortgages.

And by the way. Mortgages cant go from 3% to 20%. That is illegal. Mortgages can only be AT MAX 6.5 percent more than the yield for treasury securities of the same term. BUT there was definitely predatory lending going on but it was government backed predatory lending.

But we should be able to agree that it was caused by a combination of
Greed: On the part of banks, mortgage brokers, government officials and home owners.
Government Involvement: Forcing FNMA to carry 50% unqualified notes and dropping the banks capital requirements among other things.

Getting back to the original article, I think that the whole Tea Party movement is hypocritical. They claim to want smaller government, lower taxes, and less government intrusion into ordinary citizen’s lives. Who doesn’t?

But I would bet they don’t want decriminalization of most currently illegal drugs. If anything, they want more government intrusion into ordinary citizen’s lives with respect to illegal drugs.

They don’t want less government involvement in reproductive rights. I bet they want more Federal laws limiting abortion.

Same goes for gay rights and a host of other issues.

What they really want is whatever it is they want (lower taxes, looser gun laws, ???) and nothing else. They want government to represent their interests only - they don't seem to realize that other citizens have other interests.

Futile to explain it to me?
I am white, for all intents and purposes, what is my advantage?
Please do explain how the field is not level?

I am white and grew up in the ghetto, along with many other white people. We received NO special treatment at all. We received less government assistance and affirmative action worked against us. In fact I was turned down for a job BECAUSE I was white. I was more qualified but they hired an Asian girl instead. I know this 100% because she is a good friend of mine and the department is known for wanting to be "Ethnically Diverse" which means they discriminate against white people.

So I'm willfully evil and ignorant?

Which insult?

I don't believe we are any more lazy than another country. I do believe our government has done a good job making us rely on them for what we should and can provide on our own.

That's a very interesting idea. I mean, if the tea party movement believes in smaller government, with less taxes, and personal freedom, I would think the drug war would infuriate them. But then, I would think the drug war would infuriate most republicans and social conservatives as well.

If you are looking for a movement that is 100% inline with your belief systems, you wont find it. Hypocritical? Obviously. But what movement or political party isn't to some degree. You have to support the movement/political party that MOST aligns with your own. Have you found it? EG and a few others have, Socialism. I'm sure they don't agree 100% with it but they agree more so with it than other political parties/movements. For me.... I agree, they should not tell us what to put in our bodies but I agree more so with them on the fiscal and government involvement level which to ME is more important than drug laws. But that is just me. Everyone of us needs to make that decision on our own. When I was young I made a list of what was important to me in order of significance and voted based on that. i have changed parties/movements several times based on the evolving parties and evolving personal beliefs.

I am a libertarian who likes the tea party. Yes, I don't agree or support the drug war. I wouldn't say it infuriates me because I have kids and I can see the intent behind it. But I would prefer that war is ended.

Curious. Is there any country that doesn't have a "War on Drugs"? I know obviously laws are different everywhere but don't they all have their own set of laws as far as what is legal or illegal?


Wow! My hand is cramping! One against the world it feels. Am I an anomaly here on the Nexus? Politically, I mean. I am with you on the fight for entheogenic liberty.

I'll have to do some more research on this as it does not make sense to me. The governement was forced to fund loans they knew would most likely default? Who writes the loans? The banks, not the government, and the definition of "predatory lending" is giving loans to people who will not be able to pay it back if the interest rate rises. This explains the housing bubble. If this is the case, what were the forces behind this practice, because it is so blatantly shooting oneself in the foot? There has to be a method to this madness.



In a fractional reserve banking system, the banks have to keep a certain percentage of deposits as reserve. So by the old rules, they had to keep $1 for every $7 in deposits. The extra $6 then can be given out in new loans. When they changed the capital requirements, the banks now had to keep $1 for every $40 in deposits, and could now could use $39 for new loans. Those loans then get put into other banks, and they keep $1 for every $40 and relend it out. It is how the money supply is increased. Only around 3% of the US money supply is actually in bills, the rest is digital.

$1,000,000 deposited.
$25,000 kept as reserve

$975,000 lent back out...that loan gets put in someone elses bank account.
$24,375 kept as reserve

$950,625 lent back out...etc.

The banks now had 5-6x more money they could lend out to enrichen themselves on others deposits by paying 1-2% interest on those deposits, and charging 6-30% on loans. Therefore they were looking wherever they could to make new loans, and since the pool of people who qualify under normal circumstances is limited, they branched out into the sub-prime market, knowing that if they made risky bets, the rewards would be higher and that they would likely be bailed out if something went wrong. Which is exactly what happened.

Hardly anyone ever talks about the $600 Tillion (yes that is a T) in unregulated derivitive trading...which is another disaster waiting to happen.

polytrip, I'd like to make a couple of observations regarding your post. I'd first like to say that I am American, I lived in Maartensdijk,NL for 4 years back in the late 90s while I was working for or with the Dutch government. I Have also spent allot of time living in Norway. I have been back living in the states now since late 1999.



The standard of living of the poorest in Scandinavia and Holland is much higher than in America.

The Poor in America DO NOT have the same mental and physical capabilities as the poor in Scandinavia and Holland. The illiteracy rate amongst the poor in America is probably 10x that in scandinavia and Holland.

The incidents of Obesity amongst the poor in America is probably 20x higher than Scandanavia and Holland, so the physical capabilities of the poor is not the same because of the diet related illness and disease.



The lazy poor in America have much less incentive to work than in Scandanavia. We in America subsidize the poor illiterate and obese so they dont go to work. We offer them incentives to have more children so they can make more money. In Scandinavia and Holland there is sooooo much more in the way of workers rights, ie health care, minimum wage, garaunteed paid vacation, great hours, and a right to work.



More people are not working their way out of poverty comparatively. Less people are born into poverty in Scandinavia. I dont thik you really understand what poverty is. Scandinavias society is working better because of the TAX rate you pay and because of how few poor per capita you have. Norway is one of the WEALTHIEST countries on earth! Scandinavia has one of the lowest illiteracy rates on earth.

When you compare rich and poor dont forget all the reasons for why Americas poor are not getting any richer.

Sorry polytrip I dont mean to attack you, I respect your point of view.

I gotta go, I dont want to rant.

I admire and respect the Scandinavian and Dutch societies. It wont work in America though. We have some messed up people that need allot of help and a government that is deeply in debt.

IHS

I am a Libertarian who does not like the Tea Party. If you look at the demographics, it is mostly rich white people. I'm white, and fairly well off, but they don't represent the majority of my ideals at all. They don't like big government, but are happy to collect their social security check. They are against health care, but love Medicare. It is a party of hypocrits and contradictions. All they want is government that will cater to their particular needs, and screw everyone else. I want a governement that works in the interest of all the people. United we stand, divided we fall.

I am fiscially conservative, you should pay as you go. I am socially liberal, the govnt should stay out of my personal business. The Tea Party wants to control my personal life, just like all social conservatives and I will fight that until my dying breath.

Some government is needed, because as we have seen in the last decade, an unregulated or insufficiently regulated market only works in the favor of a select few at the expense of the many.

Clinton was in power at the time and his HUD Secretary Andrew Cuomo actually said the administration was mandating a policy of “affirmative action lending". FNMA writes the loans which is a GSE aka government entity. The definition of predatory lending isn't giving loans to people who will not be able to pay it back if the interest rate rises. It is taking ADVANTAGE of a borrower. Whether that be charging them a 9.5 when they deserve 5.5 or charging them 4 points when you charge an equivalent borrower 2 points.





I agree with you that that was a major factor AFTER the collapse. My point, it didn't CAUSE the collapse. What caused the collapse was the government forcing FNMA to carry 50% under qualified loans. It was no surprise to us in the industry this would happen. Honestly, its common sense. Would you loan me $1,000 if i just borrowed $1,000 from EG and $500 from someones else, etc. and never paid them? Probably not. Right? But the government is now telling you if you are going to loan money to ANYONE 50% has to be to those that probably wont pay you back. Of course you'll go bust! That is what happened on a much grander scale.

IceHouse, great post.
Saiden, oddly enough we agree politically more than you may think. We just differ on our ideas of the Tea Party people and I guess minorities ability to compete with a white person.

I don't think anybody would think that americans are any more lazy than the rest of the world. But since the government in scandinavian countries plays a bigger role in society than it does in the USA or the UK, you would expect the scandinavians to be more dependant on it than americans.
If in spite of that, in scandinavian countries there is less poverty AND the scandinavian countries are basically as wealthy as or wealthier than the USA or the UK, the conclusion must be that government interference in the economy pays of, the way the scandinavian governments do it.

Again: if you exect both american and scandinavians to have the same working mentality and that the americans are not lazier, than the economy works better in scandinavian countries if there is less poverty and the average incomes are higher.
The average income in sweden is equal to that in the USA, while social security and healthcare are much better and the people are, according to the global survey of world happiness much happier. The average income in denmark is about 20% higher than in the USA, social security and healthcare are better and denmark is the happiest nation in the world. Norway has an average income that is nearly TWICE as high as that of the USA, while again having better healthcare and greater happyness.

There is something those countries are doing better than the anglo-countries.

Actually you've just proven my point. The american way of looking at the government and the role it's supposed to play leads to a less effective government and a less effective economy and society.

The paradigma that less government interference automatically leads to a more effective economy and less poverty is therefore proven wrong.

I agree that this won't work in america, but for the reason that people simply expect little good from the government. If expectations are that low, people are not willing to hand over any responsibility to the government, thus leading to an even less effective government and a downwardspiral in goevrnment efficiancy.

Italy is a good example of that. The expectations among the population towards the government are even lower than in america, so the country is runned by characters that seem to come straight out of a coppola movie or a spaghetti-opera.

polytrip,



I disagree. The american way of looking at the government is not the reason the American government is , as you put it, not effective. The problem right now with the American government, IMHO, is greed and corruption.

GREED and CORRUPTION.

American people have the same basic wants,hopes,and dreams, for the most part, that any other people have. MORE government has proven ineffective.

I believe the Tea Party will win outright in 2010 and 2012 elections and they will govern better with smaller government because there will be less money spent\stolen\lost to Greed and Corruption. They will be able to, more effectively address social issues allowing money to go directly to where it is needed, instead of first going to some CZAR who is first going to pay himself and all his cronies, who will then reinvent a way to execute their plan.



I disagree. I do believe that less government interference will lead to more opportunity. Holland is and outstanding example of what socialism does to opportunity.




Here I agree with you. The expectations are low, people are fed up. The American government is more inefficient than ever before. We are at Rock Bottom, I hope.

The combination of Bush and Obama have really fukked things up. I voted for Obama and now I regret it. I think he is for the most part, genuine, however the system is corrupt. The very government that voters put in office are now preying on it's constituents. There is more predatory marketing and lending than there has ever been. The financial bail out was a joke. The banks that borrowed from the tax payers are profitting like never before. The CEOs are getting big bonuses like never before.

People are being laid off and foreclosed on like never before.

The government is bigger than ever before.

The Tea Party is coming, like it or not.

All you guys that support the tea party realize that these nutjobs are the same people that want to see to it that all gay/non-white people are treated as lesser human beings?

Plus, they hate knowledge. Theyd probably want even harsher drug laws.


I rather give ALL my excess money to a big powerful government that was more socially equal than support a bunch of rednecks who want booze money.

I dont see the Tea Party as Nutjobs.

I am white and hetero. I'm considering supporting the Tea Party. I dont want to see anyone treated as lesser human beings. Nor would I treat anyone as a lesser human being.

I am against SPECIAL INTRESTS. As human beings we are all created equal. If my intrests arent special to the government then yours shouldnt be either.

I dont believe they hate knowledge.

I know for sure that many of the Tea Party members come from the Libertarian party and or have the backing of the Libertarian party. The Libertarian party supports legalization of Cannabis.

I'll do whatever drugs I choose no matter who is in office.

I'm a Redneck. I dont drink alcohol at all.

I am a proud Redneck who doesnt appreciate being classified as an ignorant, homophobic, gun toting, rightwing, racist, hate monger, Boozer.

I have rights under the constitution provided to me by my forefathers who fought and died so that I can have them. I'm not willing to give up ANY of my American liberties to big government so they can be more powerful and socially equal.

Social equality isnt as a issue for me because I do not have an inferiority complex.

I am socially equal.