Ok.

TMA is a family of synthetic phenethylamines where all are true analogs of mescaline. Especially TMA-2 have been popular, with a dose of only 20-40 mg and at the same time a trip quite similar to mescaline in both effects and duration. What earlier (and perhaps still some places) was sold as synthetic mescaline was in fact often TMA-2.

I think that this video can help to add some nice information about TMA-2.
One of my favorite videos in Youtube, btw.

Thank you cloud... I think you should tell the whole story. go for it man! Do it! seriously! put yourself out there, share your ideas! we can have multiple truths, and points of reference. I feel debate and arguing just moves us further from pluralism and peace some times. my motives are just to facilitate an opening of perspective not debate, so that that pluralism and peace and openness can spread, why urge an arguement... they feel terrible.


TMA is interesting... it can be sourced from arasone and that can be sourced from calmus root... You think a lot of what has been sold as synthetic mescaline was TMA2 huh? I wonder... its always been one of those sort of grails... an enigma... distant but so close... its always fascinated me.
Now I wish there was a simple kitchen chemistry way of making that!

I was thinking about this earlier today, and the traditional use of peyote amongst canadian plains tribes came to mind..apparently it's use here goes back hundreds of years..and some people think longer than that. Obviousily peyote isnt indigenous to canada..but nonetheless the tribes here chose to adopot it's use long before it ever made itself known to european culture..and no doubt they decided to use it simply becasue it works.

No need for these verbal (textual?) attacks on members... we all love each other here.

we really do love each other... its beautiful...

Its true they use it because it works! makes perfect sense to me...

I have taken quite a lot of 2cb and I dont really think it's "all that".
To me it's nice but nothing more.

There's is to little "mind fuck".
It's very short lasting and redosing gives me to much physical discomfort (any way to counter act?)

What about 2cb is it that you like?

I havent had any trips stronger than 30mg so maybe it's better if more is taken, how much do
you guys take when you say strong dose?

Insufflate (burns!) or oral ingestion?

SWIM used to insulfflate it. 15 mg neat. worked very well. Most of the real serious healing and growth swim has had swim owes to this one. SWIM feels that it has an agenda of its own, and intelligence much like ayahuasca does. When swim works with it now it tells him to keep working on what it has taught swim. and gives nice reminders of those lessons. It is very powerful and helpful. But it boils down to how you relate to it.

The point of the topic wasnt really though that 2CB is just soooo amazing. but that indigenous healers chose it over their traditional plants. That is the really amazing part really.

not surprising, when you consider: the 2CB was primarily 2CB. entheogenic plants contain several other alkaloids and carbohydrates. obviously, those extra compounds will alter the quality of the experience.

I find 2CB to be a perp, a knock off, a counterfiet and most of all a let down.

I'm sure it is ideal for all those out there who dont care to deal with the heavy inwards refection that entheogens produce.

2CB is an immitator, an ammature, great at tracers and a little light here and there.

2CB is a party drug.

I guess it has its time and place, for some.


I've been down that road so many times, I am always left with disapointment.

I'll take Mescaline any day.

As I said... what do the shamans know that we do not... cough... I would say your disappointment of it is its disappointment of you...

Worth lays in the eyes of the beholder. All is reflection.

Why would you say that and also in that way with the 'cough'? It comes over as belittling and looks very disrespectful.

Some people like 2CB more as other entheogens and others just don't see it that way. Likewise with the shamans, after all they are still humans with a certain preference within a certain social context. Using words like 'what do the shamans know that we do not' doesn't mean anything since you don't know either, or do you? And I have to agree with clouds that you seem to play the 'Shulgin' card a lot. Shulgin unfortunately isn't here to comment on what has been said in the past, for all we know it has been taken out of context or maybe over time he got new insights that contradict his earlier comments.

It would be nice if ideas would not be presented as fact.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

"2CB is a party drug.
I guess it has its time and place, for some."

I felt that was being talked down to from a superior point of view as a passive aggressive slam on those that did not see it as party drug, those people must just be deluded... And agree with wake and bacons point. My intention was not to be rude but to point out that that is projecting some assumptions onto the rest of us.
And honestly what makes a party drug a party drug is your intention. we turn something that could be amazingly powerful into a "party" drug... there is no such thing as a party drug. Treating any drug as a party drug is disrespectful if you ask me. Every substance on earth that can alter consciousness can do so in a sacred way that can benefit people, it depends on the resolve, dedication and commitment of the practitioners intention, I have seen evidence of this over and over and over again. I have seen people in traditional san pedor ceremonies treat it like a party, and a san pedro as a party drug. IT is HOW they RELATE that makes it so.


"Using words like 'what do the shamans know that we do not' doesn't mean anything since you don't know either, or do you?"

yes I do...
if you relate to it as a party drug that is how its going to relate to you, if you relate to it as a sacred medicine its going to behave as a sacred medicine. Some entheogens have greater limitations and greater benefits for accomplishing specific tasks and 2cb is one of them that has a lot of really great benefits for doing shamanic work with it. Even from a psychotheraputic stand point 2cb has been used very effectively and SWIM thinks that if further exploration was ever allowed to open up in that area of research again that it could be worked with to amazing end via somatic psychology/therapy. The reality that it has been used as a psychotheraputic tool as well as shamanic medicine indicates that there is more going on with this then just a party drug. Which is why i coughed and why i asked again what do these shamans in south africa know that those that see it as JUST a party drug (but view other drugs as sacred) do not know.

Can you actually show me how or when I use this shulgin card a lot? I dont talk about him hardley ever. cross search my name on here and shulgin... I dont even agree with all that shulgin says. I did meet him a few times... we arnet buddies, we dont KNOW each other, big deal. I am not in any way using that to support my own point of view but to relate a true story in the context of what I was discussing. And I am not name dropping to make people see my point of view more valid then anothers. I mentioned him several times in this post because when your talking about 2cb how can you not, every incident was within context.

And which Ideas do you see being presented as fact on this post? All I am attempting to do is inspire some questions not assert any facts.

yeah, it's all a matter of preference, not facts

so here's mine: DPT > 2CB
DPT makes 2CB look like child's play.
DPT is for serious study, definitely not a party drug.

your really a big DPT fan huh? SWIM doesnt run into to many of those.
Never worked with it...

I was not really trying to get into a question of preference really though in writing this on evolver. SWIMS goal was to illicit some questions as to why we catagorize entheogens as being a party drug when a shaman can work with it in south africa. To SWIM this points out that we have to look at how we ourselves relate to the drug itself. That we are possibly shaping and limiting the quality of experiences we can be achieving with our bias and expectations.

Has SWIY ever snuffed 20mg of 2CB? SWIM has never seen any one able to do that in a public social setting. I am sure those people are out there... some where... possibly living deep below the earths crust...

never insufflated 2cb, but did with DPT (holy shit)

"party drugs" are just a media label for misunderstood compounds, like "date-rape drug" for GHB.
MDMA is another so-called "party drug" that has utility in treating PTSD; hell, they used to be called "designer drugs", as an analogy for designer jeans.

the application is only limited by the imagination