Recently in the Nursery, fractal_enhancement and I discussed what to call the rue/mimosa potion that is commonly drunk as an ayahuasca substitute. He made a good point about how any true "huasca" really should involve the vine, and that putting rue under the name of ayahuasca is not a respectful use of terms.

So, I wanted to see what people think it should be called. Usually it seems to be called rue/mimosa, or mimosahuasca. And whatever terms are used, the meaning is usually understood; but it's a common enough form of the sacrament that I think it really needs its own name.

Personally, I think it might be worthy of resurrecting the name haoma for it. I know that the true nature of haoma is unknown, but rue is certainly one of the candidates, and at the very least comes from the same tradition as the haoma. It is too good a word to keep in hiding forever-- I believe we should reinstitute it to refer to the oral sacrament that involves the seeds of peganum harmala.

Or... throw out some suggestions!

Kykeon

mimosahuasca sounds like the most logical name. When something new is brought forth it is important that the name be somewhat descriptive so others can find information on it in the forums. It is tempting to create a groovy new name for something but if that name hinders research on the subject then it is not beneficial. In this culture there is a tendency to call things by several names which causes confusion. Just my opinion.

The thing about mimosahuasca is that "huasca "stands for "vine", which is of course not correct for mimosa. If using the Ayahuasca name with mimosa I could better understand "Ayamimosa" or something like that. Mimosahuasca and specially pharmahuasca are horrendous names, IMHO, although more or less established. Yet I do believe we can propel the momentum to establish a new word or new meanings for a word, like "spice" was sort of consecrated by use here in the nexus.

[BTW, what is the origin of "spice" as (smokable) freebase DMT?]

Ryokō

its japanese for Travel(ling)

Isn't it Jurema for Mimosa???

brews with Rue have a tradtional name..its Haoma and has been Haoma for thousands of years. Haoma is rue as a base with admixtures..just like ayahuasca is caapi as a base with admixtures..to me it doesnt matter what the admixtures are.

Is this what you're talking about? Don't see any mention of rue, though I know McKenna pondered that soma may have been syrian rue.

Ahhh, in the other thread I was unaware that "huasca" means vine. Cool with straight Haoma, myself, then. Also agree that the admixtures vary far too much to base the nomenclature around them.

Hi fractal, I do dig this stuff and would really like to see a source for that assertion!

Above, I half-jokingly suggested the kykeon. But it is not totally unreasonable. Kykeon means a "mix" which is generic enough for such a potion. Currently one of the strongest candidates for the Eleusian Kykeon drink is Harmala. Check the "Dionysian mysteries revisited" By Rosemarie Taylor Perry, and also some other thread in the Nexus where this was briefly mentioned. This link has also some information on the subject: http://www.ancient-wisdo...uk/eleusianmysteries.htm

Harmala and Acacia are two native Mediterranean plants, thus naming a mimosa (a very close relative to Acacia) and harmala mix as Kykeon would be fine with me. Plus it sounds way cooler than Haoma

Yes, the Kykeon could have been rue, but isn't there a more or less overwhelming amount of evidence that it involved barley? That just SCREAMS ergloine alkaloids, or mushroom cultivation.

It's commonly assumed that haoma was probably ephedra, except if it was ephedra and all of the Indo-Iranians still KNEW that then it never would have been "lost", eh? I would also like to point out that haoma/soma was made from pressed stalks, and if I remember correctly the stalks of the Syrian rue plant DO contain significant amounts of harmala alkaloids (and it's yellow, which some sources say it was). Note: I'm not trying to single-handedly make the argument that rue WAS the haoma, I'm trying to just make the argument that we'd be justified in referring to rue as the haoma without misrepresenting it.

In the Hom Yasht and the Zoroastrian tradition, haoma was held in reverence of its power and those who partook could be born again, gain respite from age or death, be told of what was to come, etc. Immortality is frequently mentioned. Haoma the deity was the messenger between God and man; to contact God one had to partake of the haoma and let his wings lead you to the Creator.

Despite the similar roots, soma seems to have a very different character attached to it. But I definitely think haoma fits the bill as a word for the rue brew. As a community, we have the power to coin this term. Are there any strong votes against doing so...?

(and I know it's not really a part of the discussion, but the Secret Chiefs 3 song "On the Wings of the Haoma" really does a decent job of capturing some of the feeling of rue)

What's wrong with mimosarue? Sounds good and makes obvious sense.

I think Fractal made a really good point, though, about how it's difficult to name something after the admixtures. I know in the OP I was asking about giving a name the mimosa/rue combination, but I think now, like ayahuasca, it might be better to give a name to the rue drink itself without worrying about the different forms of "light".

There is an entire subforum of the ayahuasca forums dedicated to a sufi group that uses syrian rue brews, to them rue is the haoma..these people are sufi and know a hell of a lot more about the reality of rue based brews in ancient sufiism than I do..so you might want to check that out.

Wow... excellent! That's exactly what needs to be heard. In that case, I propose that hereafter the term of choice for a rue-based sacrament be haoma.

Usually it seems like rue is pushed aside as an undesirable aya analogue. I think by giving it its own name and recognizing its cultural heritage, rue will be given a little more respect and identity amongst the greater entheogen-using community... or at least the Nexus.

Any way to make this Nexus official?

I too dislike the terms pharmahuasca, mimosahuasca, etc. since it etymologically implies the presence of a vine. The prefix aye- is still appropriate to my mind though, as the brews still have an analogous 'spirit' quality.

I'd suggest ayahaoma for rue+admixture brews to differentiate it from haoma, which is rue alone. To replace 'anahuasca' (a contraction for ayahuasca analogues) I'd prefer 'ayalogues'.

Rather than pinning down a specific name for the combination though, why not just call it what it is: a jurema/rue brew (or jurema/haoma.... actually juremahaoma has kind of a nice ring to it)

Ayahaoma sounds pretty damn snazzy, Entropymancer! I think that'd be a fine name for it.

On a tangent: all the experts in the field seem to agree that at some point in the ancient past, soma and haoma referred to the same thing. It might be that the ancient soma was Syrian rue. Or it might be that soma and haoma were both something else (there are a half-dozen decent candidates), and each was replaced with substitutes over the years (with rue among the Iranians, and among the Indians with ephedra and the many various other replacements that can be found in ritual (though scarcely psychoactive) use there today.

But its clear that for at least the past 2000+ years, haoma has referred to Syrian rue and has a rich history in that region, so I only use the term haoma to refer to rue, while I use the word soma to refer to the unidentified ancient soma/haoma of the proto-info-iranians

I disagree! This is not clearly the place to discuss this, but here's a couple of facts. In the first place the most common host for ergot is rye. Barley is a sort of a second choice for the fungus. If barley was chosen for the kykeon because of ergot, why not rye, which was as common in Greece? Secondly, ergot is basically poisonous. People die from eating it and with the most excruciating pain. No one has proposed a single preparation that removed the poisonous effects from ergot. Thirdly, ergot is quite noticeable and a ugly sight. Despite there have been some poisoning in the middle ages, for the most part people have learned that that blackish thing on the grains of rye was basically Bad Mojo and could kill whole villages!

Hoffman et al enthusiastic with LSD, made the obvious XXth century connection LSD -> Ergot -> Barley -> Kykeon, which is actually pretty naive and does not hold water by any serious researcher in the area.

Interestingly Barley may actually be involved in the Kykeon, but in a different role. Barley, specially some wild varieties, and on specific phases of their development have a measurable amount of tryptamine alkaloids, some with psychedelic activity. A concoction of that type of barley with harmala might indeed be a much more viable possibility for the Kykeon than a very poisonous fungus, and produce a deep inebriation much more capable of showing the immortality of the Soul (the main Secret of the Mysteries) than a hypotetical LSD derivative

hmmm... Sufis on the Internet using psychedelics... even though the Quran forbids any type of intoxicants I know a couple of real Sufis with whom I have I have discussed the use of several substances, and they have quoted me the appropriate suras why they could not do it. [Also on the subject of sufis.net I've heard about some Real Taoists that shoot heroin and post on Twitter and Genuine Tibetan Lamas hooked on MDMA on facebook (sorry couldn't resist! ]

About the use of harmala in Islamic countries, it is used, as you know, for cast away the evil spirits and to neutralize the enchantments do Djinns. However it is used always by burning the seeds as incense. There are no records of its ingestion