I've used "duff," vaporized marijuana, to put the JWH on. It burns real nice, clean, and smooth. Plus, the duff has some leftover natural cannabinoids and a decent taste. Duff doesn't make me cough when smoked; it's very light, especially in a joint. I guess most of the oils have been removed already, giving off a less irritating smoke.

:idea: You can add hemp flower essential oil to you blend. Then it will kinda smell and taste like pot. This stuff is terribly expensive, but smells awesome.

I've actually come to find that I like the oral use of JWH rather than smoking. I find smoking 018 to be quite different, than oral 018. Orally, 018 is much more like cannabis, even sleep-inducing. With large oral doses of 018 (20mg+) will give me red eyes, body buzz, munchies, basically the classic "brownie high." BUT I am a rather consistent daily user of cannabis. I've only tried JWH's without cannabis less than a dozen times. I always prefer to mix the natural cannabinoids with the JWH, or atleast mix the 018 and the 073. It rounds out the high.

I've only compared 018 and 073. I like 073 better. I am less likely to have anxiety and I am much less likely to overdose on 073. 073 would be an indica; and 018 would be a strongly sativa-leaning indica hybrid.

I would guess that the JWH's vaporize at a lower temperature compared to cannabinoids. The powder seems to melt and vaporize very easily under a bic lighter. I wouldn't really know, though. I've never smoked pure THC using a bic lighter.

They are isolated hydro-carbons right? Couldn't be much worse than smoking weed, but you are definitely correct in that the amounts consumed in any given lifetime should be watched very carefully. As for comparison I liked 073 it was very mellow and when combined with mids it proved to be very enhancing. in large amounts it was a heavy stone with no hallucinations but I'd assume the more types you get the better it becomes. If your looking for combo's i've heard people recommend 018, 073 and 250 highly. With 250 being the supposed best.

Cannabis contains cannabinoids, whihc have been studied extensivly and have a very very long history of safe human use, JWH compounds on the other hand are not cannabinoids, they are completely diff. They are indoles. Just becasue they are hydrocarbons or act on the same receptors doesnt mean a thing. They are completely diff compounds. We dont know anything about JWH long term use, for all we know it could be another MDMA type situation..where lots of people use it frequently thinking its all safe, and find out a few years down the road its fucking up some neurotransmitter levels/receptor sites in the brain.

Im just saying be careful, and dont assume that this stuff is like cannabis just becasue it has similar psychoactive effects.

What actually gives cannabis its usual sweet & fruity flavor? Have never heard much talk on this.

Assuming JWH becomes something that MAY prove to be a safe currently untested alternative... a lot of the joy in a MJ vaporization or smoke is the distinct taste. Some of these other herbs sure are wonderful in their own right but certainly aren't similar to MJ in taste

"Duff" / vaped MJ won't work for a lot of people that are trying to avoid THC as a compond entirely when it comes to potential testing

I've never encountered this JWH stuff but i've heard quite a few people say that it does seem to have at keast some of the same downsides as MJ: it becomes a habit and before you know it you're lying on the couch, watching homeshoppingprograms all day.

On the other hand i'm curious. This stuff must be able to give quite a rush.

<3

Anyone have any thoughts on what might actually cause the inate sweetness in MJ? Or how to replicate it?

I have smoked about 3g of JWH in the last 4 months, I stopped about a month ago. I was using JWH-018, and I obtained it for relatively cheap (35 g w/ shipping). I ate it a few times, but I found that the effects were inconsistent. What I would do, is sprinkle some on a chillum, and then heat up the glass with a jet lighter. This method was extremely effective, and I soon did find that I was smoking it WAY to often. 018 is not entirely like thc. It was starting to give me muscle cramps. Then next thing it started to do was aggravate my headaches. It made my headaches MUCH worse, and my head is still extremely irritated, I get 4 migraines a day on a good day.

The tolerance went way up, And I found that it made a few of my cannabis smoking friends vomit at doses over 7mg. I never through up, but I overdosed one time.

Overdosing on this shit is extremely easy, and not fun. You will get the worst time lapse you have ever gotten, I'm talking worse then on a hallucinogen. And yeah, your vision might get kind of blurry too. And your lungs def wont feel that great after vaping this shit for a few weeks. ]

All in All, I stopped this substance, and I feel much better. We don't really know what the effects of it are, but I can tell you, unlike cannabis, it is a CNS depressant, so it already has some harmful effects on the body.

Stay away from this foul substance.

Totally not to fault SWIY's experience but that sounds very extreme. Smoking too much perhaps? Does SWIY have a history of migranes? Never heard anything quite similar to this

There are outstanding questions regarding the carcinogenic properties of these compounds as well.

I haven't done any extensive searching, but a quick search pulls up a lot of discussion and references to studies in mice, etc. that didn't end well for the rodents.

jimbobjones, that was from my first night of smoking jwh, I smoked 20mg over the course of maybe 2 hours. I never overdosed on it again, and did much higher quantities. I do not have history of migraine in my family, but the JWH induced headaches were quite different from my normal migraines. And dont forget.... CNS depressant man, it acts very differently then THC,

i have extensive experience with 5 different JWH's: 018, 073, 200, 250, 015

to answer your questions:
1. yes. in fact much more addictive. at the peak of my JWH use, i was blowing through 1/2 gram a day no problem smoked off tin foil. i think its more addictive because it lasts so short, think crack head.
3. i would recommend Pau D'Arco, Wild Dagga petals
4. i dunno but it appears to vaporize at a lower temperature
5. out of all the JWH compounds i have tried, 018 is the best, with a soaring cerebral high (like a sativa) anchored down with CNS depression in high doses. the high fades much more cleanly than MJ. HOWEVER, the 073 (my 2nd fav) has a powerful stoning effect (like an indica)that leaves you the exact same way as MJ, only quicker.
6. IMO the 018 and 073 are the only ones worth the money. also, i would not mix the compounds because they tend to fight eachother big time. also i would not recommend mixing JWH's with cannabis because this is even moreso the case.

it should be noted that i dont encourage the use of JWH and have chosen to not use it anymore (unless a buddy offers it of course ) because of the "poisoned" and "chemical" feeling that you will undoubtably understand if you pursue this drug long term. MJ is safe and has thousands of years backing it up, plus its a natural herb. thats why i think MJ is better but to each his own. good luck with your trials of JWH

just to chime in, no its really not that unbelievable. this type of experience has happened to me once before, i smoked 30mg in one bong hit and puked maybe 10 times over the course of maybe an hour and a half (without the time dilation lol) not puke, then dry heave. no, i was puking and puking some more. i had very vivid OEVs that worsened the sickness because i felt like i was on a huge wheel and couldnt get off. his description is actually quite accurate

http://cannabis-science.com/aroma_flavor.html
http://www.treatingyours.../showthread.php?t=31074
http://en.wikipedia.org/...is_flower_essential_oil

I think the answer lies largely in the terpenes or terpenoids. In "hemp flower essential oil," one can find terpenes and terpenoids that are similar if not the same as ones found in marijuana. One could individually add terpenes (such as Myrcene, Geraniol, Alpha Pinene, or Alpha Humulene) and terpenoids (like Linalool, Citronellol, and a-terpineol). Getting the correct mix might be very difficult. One could try to find a plant or plants that have these chemicals in them naturally. Again, getting the right plants and mix, might make this very difficult.

Certain scientists are able to replicate practically any taste or smell. Though, they tend to have more resources and knowledge than the average JWH user.

Here's a few things I have experienced. I attainted a considerably larger amount of infection from smoking the synth MJ. Usually when I smoke weed regularly I will have junk come up from my lungs keep in mind I do not smoke ciggarettes. I have more of this when smoking V. Redeye is real bad my eyes get straight up bloodshot super red and sore. Waking up I the morning my eyes are usually nearly matted shut. Munchies ..... my kitchen will never recover. It seems that the side effects of MJ are much more pronounced in JWH but I took the trips pretty far.

Vovin, I do not know what is inside V bags, but besides innocuous(?) plant material you may find oleamide which is a really nasty chemical and may potentiate cannabinoid effects, but may bring along complications like the ones you are expeirencing. This is apparently a fact in some European brands (Smoke and Skunk are typical examples). Many people have shown very adverse effects even on very small amounts of those products. Google for oleamide and you will find out.

I've said this more than once. The current wave of synthetic cannabinoids is very interesting and produced really marvellous substances, but all my acquaintance do not use those herbal mixes any more. Pure JWH-XXX is readilly available all across the internet, is much less toxic on itself, and is much cheaper. Plus, if you are not a smoker, the amount of substance vaporized is minimal and very easy to inhale (barely perceptible, actually)

http://www.synchronium.n.../21/jwh-018-toxicology/
I could find a lot of talk about maybe the combustion products of jwh being carcinogenic, but no real information besides that "hearsay." A lot of talk on the boards, but no real studies or even a good theory of how combustion could cause cancer. Apparently it tests out to be rather safe for oral use, according to the link above.

I know I cough up a lot of infection when smoking it for days afterward. I have never done that to that scale with MJ. The issue with V is there is absolutely no information on the ingredients so it is really hard to figure out what you are taking in. The other brands are less effective but they dont tend to do this.

first im not a heavy pot smoker let alone jwh smoker but i do partake every so often maybe twice a month and have to say the things i do enjoy about it are the fact that i only need 2 good tokes saving wear and tear on my lungs, the sort of high i receive as if i had just smoked super strong sativa, and the shorter duration and less burnt out but more relaxed afterglow. i get anxiety from it just as much as i do regular pot but that's why i enjoy the shorter duration. aside from that my only complaint is the ungodly degree of cottonmouth it causes. so far ive tried Black magic smoke, Red Light aromatic incense, and p.e.p. pourri, the first 2 being damn strong, the last one being half the potency. and for 12-18$ a gram and considering how little i need to smoke its more economically sound for me as a gram can last me well over a month, also ive come to notice that the high begins slow and gradual for me then suddenly slams me like a ton of bricks, anyone else get this effect?

^
Yup, that's actually how I managed to overdose, it creeps up on you. The overdose was quite miserable; heartbeat hard and fast, spins like being drunk w/o the nausea , and extreme anxiety/paranoia. I've tried the "Space" and "Spice" products, the "Space" is stronger but I prefer the "Spice".

Definite red eye, munchies, psychological addiction, and a little less foggy, lethargic, and lengthy as cannabis.