SWIM is going to be extracting DMT, and he was wondering if the users weight effects the experience. SWIM weighs about 140lbs and is about 5'10".

Hi drseuss,

i'm no doc but i think brains are fairly uniform in weight regardless of how much we let our bodies go, ha ha. You are trim and fit, if not skinny. i suspect you should have an average response to the spice - whatever that means. i start noticing the feelings over 10 mg. Visuals over 20 mg. Breakthroughs for me happen at 35 mg or more and i am similar to you - a bit taller and a bit less weight.

-spiceworm

Yea that makes sense. Just wasn't sure, I know that some things effect you differently sometimes if your weight it higher.

It does matter, spicework. The effect is dependent on the concentration of DMT in the body, which takes into account the total mass. For instance, the LD50 of DMT in mice is 110 mg/kg. (http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/health/psychoactives_ld50s.shtml). It is clear here how the LD50 depends on the relation between the dose and the body mass.

Hi Advino,

Again, no doc or chemist here, but i dont really think drseuss wasn asking about LD50. Crap, id have to smoke like 6.8 grams to threaten my health/life using your qoted stats.

Honestly, my brain is probably within a pound or so of the weight of everyone else's brain here. My weight/height are average/trim, just as drseuss' are i dont think theres going to be much difference in dosage and response unless were talking about an extreme mutant or someone with outrageously low or high brain or body mass (extra internal MAO to kill the DMT).

Just one worm's opinion.

-spiceworm

Dr. Rick Strassman’s DMT studies used doses of 0.4mg/kg for their high-dose.

Body weight is proportional to dose size. For example, someone who weighs 64kg (about 140lb) might take a dose of 26mg, whereas a person weighing 91kg (about 200lb) would need a dose of 36mg to get similar effects.

Brain weight has nothing to do with dose. DMT travels throughout your circulatory system, and blood volume is generally proportional to body weight.

Wouldnt the receptor availability have something to do with all of this? I think so. Body weight being the only factor I think is an oversimplification.

Brain weight might not have anything to do with the dose..but the state of the brain I would think does.

Of course, body weight isn’t the only factor that determines intensity of effects. But all other factors being equal, body weight is proportional to dose size.

Gibran2 has it right- broadly speaking, circulating blood volume correlates fairly well with body weight or mass (but if you want to be pedantic about things, there sre differences, albeit slight, relating to what percentage of an individuals weight comprises of muscle and fat).

For this reason, calculating the required dose is done sufficiently well by correlating to weight-this is perfect for IV dosing because the dose given is what eventually assaults the brian receptors.

Clearly this is less the case when it comes to vaporising as the method of ingestion as inevitably the dose vaporised will not be completely 'absorbed' if you will.

Referring to the IV route, bear in mind the route the active ingredient takes before it hits the brain and the significant dilutional effects which take place along the way:

Peripheral vein-vena cava-R side of the heart-pulmonary circulation-L side of the heart-aorta-carotid arteries-brain.

For this reason, IF it were possible to efficiently vaporise a measured dose of DMT and ensure full absorption (not really realistic, but bear with me) it would hit the user quicker than when IVed.This is because the route it takes to the brain is shorter than the IV route, namely:

lungs-pulmonary circulation-L side of the heart-aorta-carotid arteries-brain.

From experience with other compounds which can be IVed and smoked, I can confirm that this is the case.

Yes, I know that he wasn't asking for the LD50. I just used that number as an example of how the dose depends on the body mass. The response for the recreational dose is similar but with a lower number (I guess).

Yea, SWIM was asking about body weight not brain weight.

He is probably going to make his first dose about 15mg - 20mg. He wants to document everything from low dose to high dose.

Thanks for all of the responses.

That was DMT fumarate IV.

Yes, and fumarate is less potent than freebase (by about 25% I think), so you could actually use even less (assuming that you absorb 100% of the dose).

I didn’t do the calculations, but 0.4mg/kg DMT fumarate is approximately equivalent to 0.3mg/kg DMT freebase.