Like I said I've wasted hours upon hours controlling my tone and trying to be respectful to peopels views.

But its gotten to the point where conversations are all about me versus nonsense and its a waste of my time. Some people here really do not know ANYTHING about the real world because they are so caught up in mystical crap which has deranged their brains into pea soup.

Either way I won't be coming back any time soon because I really don't give a fuck anymore. This website has been a firm waste of my time.

If its too tought or too harsh for people here to deal with then too fucking bad. Grow the fuck up and get over yourselves.

Smoking DMT is not going to magically enlighten you. Thats such a load of shit. DMT is a fucking drug get over it.

Nice one burnt, and you should know that your posts are much appreciated and by many as they provide a truly sober perspective on many issues without al the mumbo-jumbo new age stuff that flood the Nexus. I, for one thank you for taking the opportunity and trying your best to clear up misconceptions.


Didn't you also wished for someone to die (among other horrible things) some time ago in a post of yours that was deleted from the mods? Nice one.

And why there's not a need to ever argue about anything? Pathetic, pathetic, pathetic.

Cut that crap with love people....Conflict, disagreement, debate, and the occasional warming up of the blood are also necessary sometimes.

Wow. It really seems like this place isn't for you anymore. Still, good luck and much love!

hear hear!!

Let's do a little better than the hippies shall we?

Burnt, sorry you're so angry. I hear you. And i value your posts. I hope you don't disappear. We need your insights and your perspective, which while not mirroring my own, does reflect it somewhat. just don't respond if you don't agree. and channel that rage, my friend!!

I know, i know, I kinda hate the word channel as well...

Love the people you love and let people here love, even if you don't believe they do. I happen to think the word love is at once overused AND underemployed. All about circumstance.

I love your posts (overemployment), but love you? Like to think I do, but forum love - not so sure. (again overemployment.) but I like your perspective on things and respect it.

maybe that's the answer - every time you READ the word love here, REPLACE it with respect. Works for me as a work-around...

cheers,
JBArk

Burnt, I find it interesting how you feel it is needed to curse so much. I understand your position wholeheartedly, but I don't understand why you feel you need to convince people of your belief system, no matter if it is correct or not. It is very hard for someone with a strong belief that rocks are conscious to accept that they aren't, just as it is very hard for someone like you with full and total belief in science and nothing else to accept something else.

That's why I am suggesting that you keep out of discussions where people obviously have a totally different viewpoint than yourself, and instead only partake in discussions about scientific matters. You really can't believe that you will be able to convince people to take your viewpoint, just as someone else can't convince you to take their viewpoint. It's of no use to try and be a missionary, no matter what belief system one have.

I really hope that you will stay, as your posts are of tremendous value to the community. I completely understand if you don't want to, but still I am really hoping you will stay to discuss scientific matters.

until a person gives up on getting everyone to believe their way, no-one will ever believe them.

just living and being what you believe in is a 1,000,000 times stronger than just plain old words...

action is louder than speech

Hmmm I'm not going to judge you burnt, I'm someone who agrees and values more than 95% of what you have to say on here, although I definitely think there is a pinch more mystery and unknown involved with this whole expansive area than your position seems to allow, and I say this as a definite man of science myself.

You don't come across a lot of the time as a happy chappy though dude, and the anger you express makes me think you haven't got it all figured out. I hope you feel better. All the best for your future endeavours.

That is true, the word respect is better than love. Possibly then every time one wants to write the word "love" they should also replace it with "respect"

Love is a serious thing with multi-faceted meanings and whatnot. Throw it around too often as you people do and it loses its meaning and beauty. It is analogous to what some people do, basically apologising for their mistakes constantly and believing that they are granted to do as many mistakes as they want, as long as they apologise in the end, i.e. the word apology has lost its meaning for these people.

I curse a lot when I am speaking informally and because I have a deep mistrust and dislike and anger towards myths and bullshit especially when they surround psychedelic drug culture and medicine (theres been a surge of misinformation about plant drugs on the internet and even on this site many times). Myths and spiritual wackjob nuttiness is why these substances are still illegal.

Props to all those who respect the scientific method and know what it will do for this culture and society.

Everyone else go back to school or stay out of the public discussion of these susbtances. You'll only make us look brainwashed or deranged. Keep talking to the elves they have all the answers...

But for now cheers.



Oh yea and PS you people dont love me so stop giving me this "have a hug" and "love you" nonsense. You don't even know me and if you did you probably wouldn't like what I have to say about half of what you think. Hippy crap also pisses me off.

Nice opinions keep it going.

People get mad even when they shouldnt! Why? Because we all are different.

burnt I see where your logical views come into play on the forum. Its very nice to have a grounded person shatter some peoples views on the molecule in question.

Personally I am not suggesting that the elves have all the answers, very far from it. They can show you some interesting things, but they do not always show you the truth, and they do not show you all parts of the truth. Without entheogens, the world would undoubtedly look different. The same is the case for science, it is of tremendous value and the scientific method is really the biggest step we have taken throughout evolution.

A critical point of being a true scientist is accepting the possibility of every theory. Broad-mindedness is the pillar of the scientific method, a pillar certain individuals claiming to be scientists seems to be lacking. Many, many theories and 'truths' portrayed in here and in other arenas are of course pure bullshit, but it is of no use to attack the advocates of said theories with curse words. I don't think I need to remind you that science have been wrong countless times, and continue to be. What would it help to attack the advocates of ludicrous scientific 'facts' with curse words? The only way to go is to use rationality. A rant of curse words can NEVER be rational.

I feel like I am talking to a wall.

Evening Glory - I believe what infuriates Burnt is that if someone can say that a rock is conscious and believe it with no supportable repeatable and convincing proof, what's to prevent someone from asserting something equally as absurd and unfounded and - dangerous? or just plain wrong? Like the earth is flat, jews were single-handedly responsible for the economic decline of germany in the 20's and 30's, Allah hates america, blacks have inferior intelligence, and "god will provide" (a cop out if I ever heard one)... you get my point.

I respect people's beliefs up to a point. But make no mistake, beliefs can be the most dangerous things. That's why the more out there, or incredible or extraordinary the claim, the greater the burden of proof. It's the safe way. The scientific way, granted,, but more importantly the only rational way. Otherwise everything is open and nothing is questionable: a logical miasm, and not the freedom of belief most profess here, a pit of conflicting and unsupported and untenable - and even dangerous - "beliefs".

Case in point: If you believe that there is no DMT in MHRB, does it make it so?

You all employ science and rational thought and repeatability in your extractions, your posts (language), and your daily lives to get to where you are going, so why eschew and disavow and denigrate its premises?

anyway, don't mean to derail the thread. Just want to mediate (not moderate obviously). And correct me if i am misrepresenting you Burnt.

Cheers, JBArk

Thank you for a good post. With the case in point, I would of course have to answer that no, that belief does not make it a fact. But let me use that example... If you were to convince someone that there is DMT in MHRB, how would you do it? Would you curse at the person, claiming him to be brainwashed, an idiot and perhaps even dangerous for society? Or would you point to scientific data showing that in fact there is DMT in MHRB? Or perhaps ignore him and not waste your time and energy?

Yes I did infact attack someone who was NOT a member of the forum, who was NOT accepted even remotely into the family of this forum, and who had NO particular view on anything even remotely related to what we as Scientists AND mystics AND shamens AND chemists do for this forum.

There is a big difference between argument and discussion, which many members on this forum fail to realize...

Not so big a difference, g1risMethyl, actually a very fine line. That's why so many discussions evolve into debates then devolve into arguments. Why a friendly well meaning comment can evoke such vitriol from others. i wish there were a big difference. It would be much easier to tell when people are discussing or arguing or debating. To me it's all debate. till the curses come a-flyin'...

JBArk

Thanko you for this EG, this is what irks me about a lot of what I see going on between those who adhere to science and those who do not. Personally, I find the scientific method to be tremendously beneficial and apply it to all of my projects and a fair number of life outlooks. Yes, I do have a tendency to investigate things that qualify as "fringe" topics, but if science doesn't take a broad approach in investigating this existence, it will miss things. At the same time, science has shown some pretty ridiculous stuff to be "true" and this bolsters my belief that just because something sounds strange does not mean it can't be scientifically (or otherwise) investigated.

Burnt, I respect many of your views and find myself in agreement with a lot of what you say. There are plenty of threads where you lay into people in a manner that I relish to a degree, if not because I am incapable, then merely because I find myself both in agreement and more reserved than yourself. There are a lot of posts here that make me roll my eyes and say, really, come on guys, you can't seriously think this, but hey, such is life. My issue is that you attack people at times for being ideologues (hippy/new age/stupid/whatever) and yet, your attacks on these matters are devoid of the scientific evidence you cherish so dearly and are in fact, ideological themselves. I understand that you see these things as obvious and stupid, but do you think you'll have an easier time convincing someone who believes that the world is flat, that it is in fact round by yelling and cursing at them or by showing them footage from NASA shuttles flying around the earth? I feel you on a lot of what you say, but if you're going to attack people for a lack of evidence, then you should be (literally) dropping knowledge with your posts. The onus to change things rests on he who sees the problems.

I don't love YOU as the individual collection of viewpoints and beliefs that differentiate you from anyone else and make you "unique" (how could I, as you pointed out, I don't know you) but I do love the humanity that exists within you and is evidenced in your writing. I do love the work you have contributed to the nexus and greater community and I do love having someone to harshly voice when people are making egregious mistakes. I hope you find balance in your life beyond the nexus and wish you well in all your future scientific endeavors.

SB

EDIT: Just read the Gir stuff...

Honestly, I'd prefer it if knowledgestick killed himself rather than causing someone else to harm or kill themselves following one of his awful extraction videos. Additionally, just because you get heated doesn't mean you can't call for love. The issues that started this thread are still present, there's a lot of ego flying around on the nexus lately (I don't claim to be egoless, just sayin) and it has made some discussions unnecessarily heated or veer off track for no legitimate reason.

everyone should just shut up.

load a bowl of spice/changa/enhanced leaf

smoke that bowl

then come back and say whatever you feel like saying..

Thank you for enhancing this discussion so much ...these are the kind of posts that don't serve any purpose and caused this thread to be started in the first place.

No Evening glory - I certainly would not! I would keep my judgment to myself, and try to ignore the post. (if you mean their post contained assertions to the contrary). But the problem is that most people with extraordinary claims assume that the burden of proof is on science. How do you DISprove that a rock has consciousness? or, for that matter, that Allah does NOT hate america? The burden of proof MUST lie with the holder of the outrageous claim.

The problem resides in the disbelief in proof itself that a lot of people with these outrageous claims have... It becomes a circular argument. THAT is the nature of faith, and that is why it is such a dangerous philosophy, for lack of a better word.

It has been iterated here that "science has shown some pretty ridiculous stuff to be 'true' "(SnozzleBerry) and that science has been disproved countless times - thank God! because the god i just thanked CANNOT be disproved.

i have posted elaborately about this conundrum elsewhere, and it is the only way I have found to articulate my skepticism; but it is, as others call it elsewhere, a "healthy" skepticism, a way of keeping things in check. Spice has really opened my belief system, and challenged pretty much every thought I held dear.

But I cannot in real world discussions ignore the power and necessity of proof, no matter how appealing the belief.

If a rock is conscious then Allah hates America.
Disprove that statement!

Remember : a sense of humour will disarm all but the most militant of fanatics.

JBArk