Ken kesey proposed that LSD was a shortcut to enligtenment in the 60's,
I would like to offer the same idea only not to do with LSD because in my opnion,
the experience is too long and has other side-effects.

I propose that a sacred, spiritually pure DMT trip
(when you are well, when you are absoloutely stress-free, when you
are allready feeling propserous, when you are allready feeling at one
with nature, when you are feeling good, when you allready have no
distractions because thats what you have manifested without
the help of the psychedelic)

...offers us glimpses of divine places. I know there is no doubt in anyones mind'
that DMT is sacred.

I agree with nick sand when he says that we should reject the initial, though
beautiful and complex geometric patterns, and seek something higher beyond this.
What would happen then? what kind of a trip would that be, in an allready beautiful
location, free of distractions, free of stress, dressed as for a celebration,
in a peaceful environment?

Does anyone here beleive that DMT offers us glimpses of what a transcendent being
such as bhudda, shiva, krishna, ganesh, jesus or god would experience? As an asside,
I have often mused recently that aliens in their UFO's, what with the bright white lights
could be a manifestation of divinity; coming from spiritually evolved place. We're talking
here about Highly evolved beings, but not just HEB's, but also transcindental beings.

How about the potential to merge with these beings, and become them? possible?
how about, we were never seperate in the first place?

You know my myths for sure.

Let me share some ideas that came up while reading your post.

I only had such an experience on LSD once, but I didn't have to be stress-free to have it. It was like a grace of God, given to me as a gift, to keep me on this path ever since (which can be seen both as a gift and as a curse btw).

For me being enlightened means getting back to a sort of baseline. I feel humanity is currently well below the baseline: what we take for the "normal state" is in most cases a condition of mind/body sickness. Getting enlightened doesn't mean we get to the end of the road, it means we become healthy again, capable of getting on the road, of walking on it, responsibly, knowingly. For me, enlightenment is something like growing up or graduating from school and getting out to Life as a full-featured adult being.



My idea (based on personal experience):

When one rejects - or I'd rather say doesn't get distracted by - the initial, beautiful and complex geometric patterns (or any of the visions), one can get to a place I call the Center of the Universe (center in the sense of being an originating source, something that keeps it all together and going, something that animates it, to which anything that exists can be traced back, like a root of the tree of life). I heard that it's possible to even rest in this center, but I couldn't do that. I got close, but couldn't rest, so I got out on the other side, where the new life awaits.

I think that this center is everpresent (they call it the Cosmic Sun) and during a completed psychedelic trip (by completed I mean not stopped and reversed in the upcoming phase) we get through this center every time. Most people don't recognize when this pass-through happens, but the sense of before/after is quite noticeable. (On Goa Trance parties, there is a part in the night when it all gathers around a mysterious vortex - usually the fire acts as a symbol -, then at one point this before/after thing happens - in/out -, as if the energy disappeared in the center and then immediately returned, flown back to recreate the world again.)

Now the most interesting things happen if someone can get close to that turning point, the center of everything, without losing consciousness. Mathematical ideas of getting infinitely close to an asymptote help to understand what this is about. If you manage to "slow" into that (frequency going up, reality slowing down and becoming incredibly information rich), then you will find that the entire world is "encoded" into an infinitely small environment of that center. The closer you get to the center, the more powerful it becomes. It is something like this (going outward from the center): 0-1-2-4-8-16-32-... The 0-1 is the basic duality of nothingness and somethingness (Buddhism, Taoism and mystical branches of theism originate from here), the 2 is the "created" duality (good vs. evil) - the idea of the Christian God and its adversary comes from this level -, the 4 is the four elements (earth, fire, water, air) or the Christian archangels who create and drive the world, etc. The archetypes I used may represent these ideas in the hallucination (when being there at that level), but these are not just ideas, these are felt and known to be the actual creating forces, each playing their part in God's mind.



Familiar meme: psychedelics acting as time machines, connecting us to our future selves...

Thanks for the trip.

3 words, DMT on MDMA.

I normally do about 15 min of relaxed, deep, meditative breathing before I take the first hit. It takes me to the most beautiful and serene places, and the visuals are a little different too.

There is no shortcut to enlightenment. Enlightenment is a process, not an end state (the way I see it, of course, each one has his own idea ). Its trying to live your day, every day, as impecably as possible. DMT can help you get perspective, which in turn may help you see what you were doing wrong and where you can go. But the whole effort comes afterwards, putting lessons in practice, working to become a better person. This part no matter how much dmt you smoke, or psychedelics you take, will HAVE to be done by your own hands and self-sacrifices.

Dude you read my mind haha, Well said. Enlightenment is limitless potential fulfilling itself. It starts when we see the potential, and we make the constant effort to strive towards that.



This totally reminds me of some visions i had while on a strong lsd dose! The vision consisted of me meeting an "other" or highly evolved being, thats always been me. As soon as our eyes met, we merged into one magnificent being.

yes, i think entheogens offers you different perspectives,including states of enlightement...
i think the key is bringing back the lessons to all day reality and working with it.
i had the luck to experience some glimpses of what i would call enlightement. what is frustrating is that i only remember the overall feeling, or the image my mind made from the experience. i mean, the understanding, the absolutely knowing, like all the pieces fit togheter...this fades away and is impossible to make sense of when we return to our rational mind.
i read once about a monk calling LSD Nes-Zen...

Cellux, I think you nailed it. Baseline.

I let the molecule guide me to a better baseline... but it's my job to keep myself there...

One more idea (or dream) that came to me since my last post:

Enlightenment - or being on the baseline - may mean a state when (1) you have a constant connection with the Source and (2) you are aware of this and can be "fed" by it, live on it, instead of your own ego-based self-support mechanisms (which become unnecessary and fade away, together with the notion of the "I", as now you have a better way of living).

In my previous post I referred to an experience of the Center of the Universe, in which all the rest of the universe - that which is "out there", the myriad branches and leaves of the tree of life - is retracted or packaged back into a singularity of One which is then experienced as the Light, the Absolute or God, encompassing all of creation.

Now, having this experience in everyday reality is impossible - having it presupposes that the rest of reality disappears or gets retracted into the One for a while. And it is such a high energy state that the concepts (mental structures) necessary for living an earthly life may not hold up (be truths) any more. But could it be that someone living at the level of the leaves (our usual place) still has some kind of connection with this Source? Living in Heaven and on Earth at the same time? I think it is possible and that would be the enlightened state: where the Source illuminates/informs/feeds our being and particular existence from the center.

The word I associate with this is "alignment": planetary alignment, alignment of the vertebrae in the spine while sitting in meditation, alignment of several concentric circles (depicting perhaps the levels of consciousness/reality) included in one another... When alignment happens, an axis appears (latently always present, but not visible/accessible/usable due to misalignment), around which all levels of existence - from the root out to the level of the leaves - can organize themselves. This would be the healthy, wholesome state. I imagine information related to the actual state of the universe is being broadcast through this channel from the Center all the time and in a state of alignment, we can tune into this information, live on it, feed on it - this may become the new bread or the new wine Christ was talking about.

sorry to say but nirvana IS an end state, a state of being, once attained can never be undone.
perhaps we are all allready in a state of nirvana -and then the natural conclusion is to put a BUT here, but there's no BUT!, thats ALL; end of sentance! capiché!

you dont have to be sorry to say it, its your opinion and its just as valid as mine

I personally think it's not of benefit to think of nirvana as an end state or to believe it literally because:

1- There seems to be no evidence appart from some story in one or another book that this exists as an unreversible state
2- It is a disempowering metaphor: It is so hard to reach enlightenment that it creates a disilusion for those that dont, which leads to:
3- It opens up possibility for a lot of pseudo gurus that claim enlightenment, and those that believe and deeply desire it will be more easily misled by those leaders
4- It dimishes the appreciation for the NOW, and for the whole process. Life is a dynamic process, if you live always waiting to reach one specific desired moment or end-state, you'll not appreciate the processes as they unfold, life as it happens day by day.

as for 'we are already in state of nirvana', this brings a lot more questions: why have another name for a state that we're already in? Why work for something we already have? How does this explain the different levels of awareness in people? etc etc

I personally keep thinking, that even IF there is such a thing as an end enlightened state, its not my next step, so why waste my energy in imagining it now if there's plenty of more pressing matters to work on?

each one to his own though

Is there even a single definition of "enlightenment" in this thread? If I'm looking for apples, you're looking for bananas and Timmy is looking for car insurance and we all go to Burger King, it doesn't really bode well.

Live in the now with steadfast devotion and selfless service with the task at hand & no attachment to the end result.
Your life will become beautiful and flow.

The "false self" or ego is shed leaving the true self which was once buried by the false hopes and desires.
The inner wisdom will be your guide.

Run with it

Psychedelics DO help facilitate this process BUT do not do it for you!

This is another example of the misalignment I've been talking about. "Now" and "Future" as two things/states, one here, the other projected, creating a "ghost image" on the TV screen of existence. The "now" is hunting the "future" as its carrot. The future is what we want, the now is what we want to escape from. The two may get aligned again when the desire comes to an end.

Do you mean to say that DESIRE creates TIME??

Maybe it's the extra Caapi still kicking around in my brain... but :idea: :idea: :idea:

That's really huge. That just blew my mind. I think I just figured out time...

What does it mean to be free from desire though? I desire food, water, love and a myriad of other things required for my normal day to day functioning. What then is within the bounds of "allowed desire" and "disallowed desire"?

As for the above post, indeed the Whole creates a new image of the future from the past. On our scale, as agents of free will we have the ability to paint the picture of reality except we are holding very small paintbrushes in the global landscape.

The wisdom is in the journey not the destination. DMT is not a shortcut to enlightenment, it is a taste of enlightenment. A quick glimpse of what a more evolved conciousness is like. Enlightenment is a understanding of being not a state of mind. The way that which mankind may hold is not the eternal way, eternal truths cannot be told in what men write or say.

Food and water are NEEDS of the body. The body cannot exist without them, your spirit does not need these things.

Agreed, and well stated; Huston Smith pointed out something similar, that the psychedelics/entheogens clearly produce spiritual/religious experiences, but don't necessarily lead to spiritual/religious lives.

[quote=vovin] Enlightenment is a understanding of being not a state of mind. [quote]


YESSS! I have been waiting for someone to say it.

I think dmt can go both ways, mostly, away from enlightenment.

Enlightenment from my understanding is a matter of removing the extraneus layers of consciousness allowing one to do good(for others and in turn themselves) and live well without a hesitation, being in the moment, for every moment.

DMT spins many people into spirals of abstraction. Wondering what entity is who, what is this, how does that work, it was good, it was bad, I felt pain, I felt pure bliss, I think it was this, it can't be that. All of these thoughts are counterproductive, and hold no relevance toward being on planet earth. Analyzing the separations of reality instead of the union of all things. All of this is of course drug induced.

However, DMT can show a person what it is like to lose their ego(if they can remember let alone use that experience as a tool and many don't), and remind them of how to cope with extreme emotions by allowing them to wash away not boil up(some however cannot integrate this back into their lives, the so called middle-ground). All of that is impermanant.

Many who do psychedelics in general, rely on it for ego destruction, and can't kick off the training wheels. SOMETIMES people assume that after such a collection of enlightening moments, they are forever enlightened because they have been changed and will stop at no costs to rationalize such. Sadly as a side-effect, those whom have fallen into that peril create a greater self-interest than before.

Beyond that though, DMT destroys mindfulness(temporarily) and doesn't aid for much of anything in the present. Many spiritual gurus refute the use of psychedelics for these reasons, I'm sure I missed more of them but that is my understanding.

Then again, I'm the farthest from enlightenment. Who am I to say?