I don't think its worth arguing about. How much time did it really take me to finally understand what he was talking about.

That wall paper pattern that appears when you start to relax and as some might say 'Freak Out' that looks rather Icelandic or Elven, I believe he's calling that machinery because its self transforming. And for as verbose as that man is, that's probably the worst description I could allow anyone to come up with.

OK that was the latest DMT notion that tripped me out. Thanks for voting

ahm... what?

the poll title is self explanatory but why the title of the post so? and kinda peculiar post in general


I like 'elf machinery' description, there's definitely something very technological about some of the visions/journeys


And just to be a bit contra, I would say that I have no favourite psychedelic head.. They are special characters, part of an amazing story that you and me are also in

I dont think hes talking about wall paper patterns..I think hes talking about the actaul machines in hyperspace.

Yes but that is it exactly. The study of the thing that is important. Not what it is called.
and this was a very peculiar post indeed. Although what I mean is that when you take Terence at his word it can land you in some

serious trouble, because I do all the time, I love the guy. But I personally think that he's a prankster, in the way that the original LSD scholars dosed people at whim, night and day, so they could experience something that was unique to them so they would have a part of history as they knew it. Advice is the poor man's money, as they say

Mckenna was talking in metaphor. He was very good at that. We keep saying that we don't have the language to explain what goes on in there, and neither did he. As eloquent as he was, he was only using metaphor. Although sometimes his incessant droning on and on pisses me off.

The elves, everything appears to become a life-form. We see faces in everything, it has a personality... it becomes an elf. Machinery, everything is like an over-engineered machine. Self-transforming and singing itself into existence, this is metaphor for the fractal nature of it all.

It was just as difficult for him to explain as it is for us. Even the most lyrical of our members can only paint vague landscapes with broad messages, painted with the brush of metaphor.

That's true life is a journey that doesn't have a direction, and that's why we should appreciate psychedelics because there is nothing that can show how directionless life is as well as being suspended in disbelief so much that you just give up understanding what it is we are doing here in the first place, and sort of take comfort in the unknown.

yea i have to agree here..

most of here know first hand how difficult it can be to try and explain our trips with the spirit molecule.

i don't think you should pick apart his words as much as you are...

I think he explains it well enough. also remember that even though most people can find hundreds of similarities in each others experiences, we still all react to the molecule differently, so if he says what he perceived it to be was "Elf machinery" well then that's the best he could do using the English language and metaphor, which as we all know doesn't even provide us with the proper means to truly explain the DMT experience to the fullest extent.

Its not a metaphor, self dribbling jeweled basketballs is most definitely not a metaphor
unless it is and you're saying that the experience is metaphoric to saying that the things appear they bounce themselves, and they are beautiful and jeweled and then when you come out of catatonia, its just a basketball...that would be a metaphor...but again, back to what I said about the description being a poor one.

I think DMT communicates with us through metaphor. It takes what we have in our head and uses it to deliver a message. Not all of it, but for the most part. There are certain fundamentals, like the fractal nature of things and that the universe emulates itself on every level. McKenna's reception of this message was that objects sang more objects into existence, which in turn sang more objects into existence, and so on, and so on.

It took me a few trips of being 'programmed' by a serpent before I started having really meaningful journeys. I believe I was being mapped by the molecule, or the intelligence behind the molecule so that it could index me and find the best way to get the messages across using the symbols I understand mapped through the mechanism of metaphor.

He was most definitely talking in metaphor.

We all read other people's reports and say 'that resonates with me' - we don't say 'hey, the very same thing happened to me' - it resonates because somewhere we have a memory of the same message being delivered, only through a different metaphor.

There is a lot going on inside that we can't map to something we do understand and when we are inside we see these things and we get it, but the minute we come out we no longer understand. We then try to by mapping it metaphorically to something we do get, mostly unsuccessfully. There is also a lot going on inside that is other worldly and exists in it's own right. I have seen things that simply are not off this earth, objects for example. It is difficult to fully understand the nature of these objects or what the meaning behind them is.

It's like they're object oriented and an object that appears to one person might have the same attributes as a different object that appeared to someone else. What the people remember though are the attributes that are inherited by the same notion.

I disagree with your definition of metaphor.

I'm sure we all have our own opinions on what McKenna meant and how literally his words should or should not be taken. Personally, I think machinery fits some stuff very well. Not necessarily elf-machinery, but machinery nonetheless.

McKenna himself says in numerous talks/recordings that you should take everything he says with a grain of salt (and maybe a shot or three of aya).

peace
SB

My friend smoked dmt and he said I rose into the air and all sorts of MACHINERY formed from and around me nothing colorful or kaleidoscopic about it. I think McKenna was really talking about machines.

Hey first of all thank you for voting, Its pretty interesting to see these polls.

getting back to playboy Mckenna, I know he can talk in metaphors but we've got people telling us that he is speaking strictly in metaphors and there are people saying he actually believes there is another place that has reached its industrial age right around the time it also reached its imaginary age, with the elves and the creatures.
That is also why i don't like Metallica, i feel at any moment that guy is going to start singing about riding a dragon over an army of wizards..the guy is perpetually the age of twelve.
regardless, other people hear Mckenna say there is another world, then someone doens't fully understand that there's selfishness behind mockery, and its his credibility that makes him so reputable, he is the forerunner in our measurement of who knows more about psychedelics, when we all know just as much as any one else and anyone who says they know otherwise is a buffoon.

That there is no option for Stanislav Grof renders this entire poll a sham. =)

No A.Hoffman option either.

I dont even know how to respond to that...but Albert Hoffman did nothing to further the exploration of LSD, and he has repeatedly spoken to groups about how its design shows his remarkable capabilities as a chemist...like big deal, I've got shulgrin on the list, and he made like 200 kinds of mescaline variations. That's someone who appreciates Psychedelics

So, the guy who invented LSD has no place here, nor does the guy who first (pre-Leary) thought to use it with psychotherapy. Again I say, this poll is fail due to such glaring omissions.

Nor do I think that Robert A. Wilson would be out of place on this list. In fact, that's who I'd probably vote for. Instead, we have the C.I.A. and John Lennon. Ewwwww.

I have to agree, the choices here leave something to be desired.



I find both of these quotes to display an enormous amount of nonsensical judgement. The kind of judgement that clouds your thoughts and really prevents you from looking at things in a calm, rational, or objective manner. This thread is really starting to turn me off. You take issue with someone just because they talk about dragons or elves or wizards or other fantastical stuff? Has the spice not showed you that imagination should be revered? I'm no metallica fan, but im not gonna lambaste someone solely because their imagination is full of wizards and dragons and mine happens to be a tad more sci-fi oriented. That just seems petty (and yes, I do see the irony of pointing out such pettiness as potentially being petty in and of itself) and I don't really get where it's coming from.

"Albert Hoffman did nothing to further the exploration of LSD" Do you really believe this? Between his repeated conferences and papers on the therapeutic potential of lsd as well as discovering it, you really feel comfortable making this assertion? There seems to be a lot of personal ranting just under the surface of all your posts in this thread.

Terence McKenna really meant what he said.

Yes, other glaring omissions:
- Jonathan Ott
- Owsley Stanley
- Nick Sand
- Tim Scully
- Paul Stamets
- Paul Armentano
- Jack Herer
- ...

Can't vote, sorry. I don't think I could anyway even if everyone was on the list. That's a tough question!!