Even if we can't debunk the myths

let's at least address them and inform the readers they are what they currently are

They aren't yet myths if you cant debunk them. You're making a presupposition!


Anyway, I *THINK* your intent is to provide a list of "Fact vs Suspicions/Theories vs Unlikelihoods." In which case your efforts are valid and easily supportable.

According to the unsubstantiated theories, DMT is released into your brain during death. If this WAS true, how could we expect to find DMT in the pineal glands of corpses?

You knew exactly what I meant...

No, I did not. I am not in the business of relying on assumption, my friend. Specifics are important when discussing these matters.

Furthermore, and with all due respect, when I read your comment in this thread https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=10022 I'm a bit surprised that you too aren't agreeable with the notion of choosing our words carefully. I'm not intending to pick a fight with you so don't take any of this personally.

There is no evidence that:

DMT is made in the pineal.

That DMT is involved in dreaming (numerous other neurotransmitters have meanwhile been shown to be involved in dreaming specifically acetylcholine, just think hippocampus where your memories are sorted is filled with acetylcholine neurons).

DMT links you to spiritual realms. There isn't any evidence these realms exist outside the mind.

The MAOI diet has been exaggerated with harmine and harmaline although the advice is still important there is no need to fast for days for example before taking them.

lack of evidence is not evidence of lack

in any case I do think its important that it is clear to people what are the speculations and what are the things we know for sure, so this would be interesting for the CEL ebook... Amongst the commonly believed-as-true speculations are, as mentioned, dmt connection with dreams, NDEs, spirits and pineal gland. Lets just be careful in how we state it because as argued already, just because some things are only speculation doesnt mean they are necessarily wrong (although they might very well be wrong, so its good to be aware of it and be prudent)

This is precisely what I was trying to convey. I regret not doing so as diplomatically as you did.

Yes I understand lack of evidence does not say whatever proposition is real or not or more likely true or not likely to be true. But contradictory evidence IS!

If other neurotransmitters are shown to be involved in dreaming and dmt thus far hasn't then both propositions are then not equal. The argument that its not involved has more weight to it. The argument that it is involved has little to no weight. However before I will fully commit to that line or argument I myself and I think we here need to do our homework.

The same goes for the pineal gland theory. There is contradictory evidence. Again before we make the claim we should do our homework although some of us have and it seems clearer now.

The same goes for spiritual realms. This depends on how someone defines spirituality of course! But I will say this it belongs in the myth category for the same reasons "demons" causing disease is in the myth category. Until some aspect of the DMT experience cannot be explained naturally then you can start thinking about expanding the category of what is natural phenomenon. Until then one should try to explain the effects of dmt naturally.

The same goes for harmaloids and diet. We here have gathered contradictory evidence and the MAOI-A and B mechanism backs it up.

The fact of the matter is that people still refer to the presence of endogenous DMT in the pineal gland and the presumed role of DMT in dreaming and in near-death experiences as if it has already been proven, ironically, even within this thread. This is based on little more than faith born out of a long history of superstition regarding the role of the pineal. Strassman sought to reconcile that superstition via scientific method but has failed to do so, and moreover, the theories have been turned on their head by hard evidence. Yet the theories persist as though this evidence has not been mounted against them and as though they have some empirical basis. This is misinformation, and that it's generally accepted as fact or even as reasonably plausible and disseminated as such makes it a myth. The theories have propagated on little more than popular appeal, and this alone is reason enough to assert their lack of substantiation.


As far as accessing a higher and externally persistent spiritual plane, the simplest and most reasonable explanation would be physiological similarity between individuals of the same species as well as cultural commonalities shaping their experience and perception of the universe. It seem self-evident to me that higher doses of a psychedelic substance would result in a consistent sort of experience between individuals, as that substance would be granted more weight in determining the quality of one's perception than would one's unique neurochemical makeup.

I'm veering off-topic a bit, but I would liken this effect to an instrument capable of only one specific musical function. Though it may be used in different songs, the louder it becomes in each, the more similar they will sound. It can be interesting to implement modestly in a large number of songs to "spice" things up, but when it comes to the forefront, the result isn't going to vary much; however, sometimes that instrument can be augmented in various ways to change it up a bit, but the really interesting results would arise when the rest of the instruments adapt to the strength of that one instrument, becoming louder themselves, and playing off of that instrument in new and different ways.

That's a very, very good analogy, amor_fati. Excellent.

Where on earth could this myth come from?



http://www.psychonaut.com/post-37172.html?f=36

I really want to know

I've never, ever heard anything close to that. Nor have I heard of people going to psych wards over DMT. LSD, yes. But not DMT. I'm not saying its impossible, but I'm quite skeptical of the claims on that thread.

I believe it states(in The Spirit Molecule) that DMT has been found in the pineal of every mammal tested

No, I think it said it's in the bodies somewhere, but Stallman doesn't claim to be sure. In fact, I remember reading that he got access to several human corpses and checked the pineals and found nothing. But the bodies weren't fresh....and as I've stated elsewhere *IF* DMT is released into the brain during death, we wouldn't EXPECT to find any DMT in the pineal glands of corpses!

He does not site a reference for this statement but it is stated in this context in his book as a fact and not an opinion.

Whether it is documented or not...

can you give the specific quote or page please? Ive read it and im pretty sure he does not state as a fact that dmt is in the pineal as you said

that was the quote

Second paragraph of the second chapter entitled "What DMT Is "