^^ indeed.

I used to have some pretty severe social anxiety. This led me to drink a ton of booze in my teens and early twenties. Not a healthy way. Then I got my first job in science and a huge public speaking requirement (they don't put that in the brochure). The first couple of talks I gave it was incredibly intense. I could see the blackness in my peripheral vision and hear the buzz. After about 2-3 years of regular public speaking I became quite comfortable engaging strange humans in groups or individually. After doing this maybe 50 times times my body figured out that Social interaction will not kill me.

For me social anxiety was an uncontrolled physical adrenaline response. For me my body took a long time to learn it would not die from interacting with strange humans. I still get some adrenaline when striking up conversation with strangers or speaking in front of groups but it actually makes me sharper now that i'm sorta used to it.

I think it's just one of those mammalian things we all feel to some degree. But you are a human and can override almost any impulse with training. Just get out there into the broader people-o-sphere and get that rush until you're used to it. I bet it is much easier to get used to than a DMT flash

Just don't interact with any humans who might actually kill you. Not a problem because they are very rare and you must seek them out.

This deserves a thread on its own... such wise speak. I have never (in my very short experience) heard of that 'angle' regarding trips... aya in particular... that I can recall, but I feel it's absolutely true (in my opinion, of course). Thank you.

Ditto.

If I'm going to be at piece with this combination I either need to be alone or in good company. As educated as a shaman may be unless I've known him for years he's not going to be a positive influence on my experience.

Maybe traditional ayahuasca users would have grown up with the shaman in their locality and it would be different.

It's much better to research fully and be your own shaman.

That is not to say that a guide (e.g. shaman) can't be used effectively.

The problem lies in one using a guide to MAKE his experience, rather than shape it.

Also very true.

Though I do find once I go so deep, I'm on my own anyway.

Thanks...
well swim has busted his ass over the years... swim studied with an ayahuascero and has been a part of the aya community for VERY long time... and swim has been working as a shaman for a long time too... what ever that means lol... I hear in califorrnia every one is a shaman...lol..
so...
yeah... shamans and animist cultures every where allways had a first shaman or a cultural hero, there was a start a begining... a first person to do what people do... i think people tend to over look this a bit lol... there is nothing wrong with having your own relationship with a plant or chemical... the problem i think lays in people comparing themselves and their experiences to others and other cultures... instead of finding inspiration from what they hear read or experience... in my experience with amazonian shamans its a crazy mixed bag with all kinds of drama and bullshit as well as amazinngly inspirational things that happen...
SWIM used to sit on his own with freinds and explore aya analogs and it was amazing... totally amazing... then when swim was totally enamored with these experiences with aya he sought more knowlegde from those who had it... we stoped relying on our own intuition and experience and started working with a shaman and the amazonian tradition... and you know what to be honest with you... it sucked... im serious...
what i learned was, was to trust my own intuition my own experience and my own relationships with plants, spirit, chemicals... and to be the first to start my way of relating to these medicines... just like the first shamans...

at one point in a ceremony the spirit of my teachers teacher a VERY famous shaman you would all recognize if i said his name came to me and told me i needed lineage to be a shaman... i rebeled from the notion that it be him and his lineage and realized that you can belong to a long line of shamans since the begining of human culture... the ones who where the first shamans... and if you put your self in that place they will come and help you... you want to talk about entity contact lol... these guys will help those who are courageous enough to do what is needed to help... but they dont teach you how to be what they are or do what they did they will inspire you and empower you to do what you need to do... and in that new ways form...
and thats what i find so god damn fascinating about all yall... this is way different of a community then the ayahuasca forum... those folks tend to be fully enamored with the amazonian traditions and cant see the value of doing your own thing... of exploring... and establishing your own relational dynamics, with plants chemicals and spirit... with your own intentions and motivations...people here tend to be more instested in doing their own thing... maybe its the post modern trend of looking at chamicals instead of just tea who knows lol...
the really cool thing here is that people due to their love of DMT have explored analog plants MHRB and rue and others... and chemicals in general! you would have to establish a new way of relaitng to these really powerful expereinces by doing it the way folks do here which means if it works new traditions and ways will form... i think thats awesome...

meditation helped me, find calm inside yourself when you couldn't find it anywhere

or while praying...

had scaped from this with nicotine and alcohol, but it's an ilusion

you must associate your peace and self-confidence with yourself and not with something material.

try to get inside simple social situations, at work, or school, even at your home, give your opinion about even simple subjects, sometimes you must be patient or open-minded to what ppl want to talk about, and just show yourself interested on that subject. Try to make the chat longer, with simple expressions, like "yeah, have been there", "yes, i like it too", "what do you think about this situation".

suddendly and exponencially things will become easier.

don't be ashamed to look for a psychiatrist, or even talk abt with a friend or your parents... you know that if was you in the other side your would help, everybody has problems and knows how much nice is to have someone to hear you.

and about using material things as conditions to your self-confidence, i mean car, money, cigarette, nice hair, make up, nice clothes, all that shit

i think that psychotherapics could be useful, even never using them, think they may work as that little cars babies use to learn how to walk. But going to a doctor first is essential if you wanna try this, maybe he can just give some good advices, and you can say everything to him, like garulfo said.

Medicines, herbs, and/or things of material worth, 9 times out of 10, will not cure anxiety. simply "not giving a flying f***" about what people may or may not be thinking, although an ideal concept, is quite obviously that of one who hasn't dealt with anxiety, or at least not to any extreme degree, because anyone who deals with regular anxiety knows that it's not that simple. overcoming anxiety can be one of life's extremely difficult challenges, but is possible. it all starts within oneself as a building process that, over time, can become magnificently strong, but at the same time can shatter to pieces in an instant if one lets one's guard down. i wish that I could offer more advice, but i'm afraid that my personal anxiety-management techniques are far too individualized to even remotely apply in a general sense. much luck

Yung Shaman - Long time battler, conquerer, and battler again of severe social and interpersonal anxiety.

Today... my heart was open and full due to appriciation and feeling greatfull... for every thing... then all of a sudden some thing slight happened and SWIm expereinced some anxiety, some fear... and the heart closed and SWIm did not feel the gratuity and the appriciation any more... then SWIM remembered that one can be greatful for fear and anxeity because it gives one fore sight and courage to do what one must for the benifit of the whole... swims heart opened again and swim could feel apprication and greatfulness for fear and anxeity...

no hope no fear just courage and an open heart- The Shamanbala warrior code.

Yeah, so what happend the last year? Not much I guess. Maybe a lot. I don't know. Still have the anxiety and it bugs the fuck out of me. You get nothing served on a silverplate in this society. I don't want that...but if there'd be a little more awareness of people like me and a little more love there wouldn't be a problem at all. I'd have the chance to flourish...but now it's hard to maintain even the bare minimum of social life. How am I supposed to develope one? Even if they approach me it most often doesn't work out ...noone makes the first step to escalate the relationship to the next level...maybe im not meeting the right people..

...to be honest: This culture i live in makes me sick. But as someone recently told me: It's also a chance to grow personally. But how? I've got no clue, really.

What are these energys I'm working with while dealing with psychs? No idea. How do they work, how do I work with them? Is it even possible to answer this question without support?

And: Can they really help me...? I mean, all these realizations are fine and dandy but if I'm unable to INTEGRATE them into my day to day life...they are wortless..just another toy for my unsatisfiable mind.

All I can think about is psychs. How to get them, how to take them...but all i want is to find my way to humanity.

Obliguhl dude I like you, I like your avatar, I like your being "on the fucking moon" and I like the way you come across on the Nexus. I think you have a lot going for you and you don't realize, or see it.

I think we all get isolated from time to time. I know I do for damn sure! I would consider myself an extroverted, sociable guy, but there is part of me that is a loner, and I'm quite happy in my own company. The theme of isolation in my life came up very strongly in most powerful ayahuasca experience in Peru.

I like mixing with and connecting with people, but quite a picky guy really, there are very few people out there I REALLY connect with on a profound level. But I have found these people, they are out there to be found, so never give up hope. I was definitely a lot more reserved when I was younger. As I get older, I seem to open up to others more and more, and these days I actually enjoy the buzz of giving presentations to people.

Drug/plant wise I think its good to beware of crutches. Marijuana smoking definitely isn't an ally in this area. As has been said. I think ayahuasca and cactus could both be allies. I think anxiety, or social anxiety, can be combatted though. Iboga did this for me, and I believe it can do this in a way, and a in along-term fashion, that ayahuasca and other plants simply can't touch. When Iboga defrags your system. and builds you back up from scratch...in a sense...and you feel very solid, grounded, and reinforced. There doesn't seem much purpose or room for anxiety in life now. Sure it appears now and again, along with depressive thoughts (this is just life), but its always fleeting and temporary...and I always know this.

I seriously wouldn't underestimate exercise. It boosts dopamine and serotonin levels, and gives a definite confidence boost. And as someone pointed out, the adrenaline and buzz of hurling yourself into a social situation can be exciting...its always establishing that first connection, which is the hard bit, and this is really quite easy! Remember man, "nothing ventured, nothing gained".

Iboga hinted at me to connect with people, and seek experiences outside my comfort zone. A few years ago, I did a loggerhead sea turtle conservation project on the Greek island of Kefalonia. It meant flying out there, and staying and working with a group of 15 other people, I had never met before...obviously I was nervous! It was however, without a doubt, the best thing I have ever done. Met some very special people, and even got a job in a Greek bar for one night a week, despite not speaking a word of Greek. In had a blast, and when I got back, my interest in mixing with people, and my ability and appetite to do so, had all increased.

So I wouldn't give up hope, if you dabble in psychs, it maybe that ayahuasca or cactus might be most helpful, and it might be good to journey with an intention to work on this...but "be the change you want to see" dude. You might need to experience some short term anxiety to work on this. I hope this doesn't come across in any way, shape or from preachy, I didn't mean it to br. Its your life though dude and I feel you have much untapped potential.

obliguhl, brother, you say that if only people/society was only more accepting, you'd be able to flourish... listen to yourself... you know YOU can flourish; there doesn't need to be the perfect environment because you shape your own environment. What you give off is often what you receive, especially with people you are unacquainted with.

Take your time... this is not easy... but this is worth it. Supremely. Human relationships make living that much more astounding

Anxiety really got the best of my early childhood (OCD) but SWIM managed to overcome it with two strategies. One was cognitive behavioral therapy and the other lsd (not until I was a bit older obviously).

Anyway the idea is to purposely put yourself in situations that lead to your anxiety for as long as possible. After a while it starts to get easier and easier and eventually goes away for some people. I will never be free of random bouts of paranoia and anxiety but with the mental tools to overcome it I lead a good reasonably healthy social life.

Best of luck and don't be discouraged this kind of shit can take years.

I suffered from severe isolation, social anxiety and many different psychological problems.

What I do at the moment:
I CHANGE myself.
I want to be an open being. Therefore I try to make contact where I feel it's right.
I'm still not comfortable to talk to perfect strangers, but i start being more social in many ways.
Also Jorkests approach, to "shine" reflects my idea about "how to express myself".

Yes you have to be a joyous being, so that others might grasp how beautiful you are! You have to work on your expression of yourself. Start working on your malehood. You have to regain control of you monkey (your body)!


If you want to change your way of interaction, then CHANGE it.

You don't have to fear anything.
Expect misery to be a form of punishment for NOT using your oportunities!!!

Ah, one more thing: Stop whining.
Stop whining about the cruel world, and start living!

Bancopuma, thank you very much for the kind words and for taking the time to give me some advice. Iboga seems to be an interesting plant and reading your report in the subforum made me re-think my attitude towards it. I've read somewhere, that the death rate is 1:300. This is very high and I'm not sure if I'm willing to risk my life. I can understand people choosing it as a last resort to drug addiction though. I will continue to build a relationship with cacti and plan to dose in social situations. The funny thing is...it's often this very first step that is impossible to take.

burnt, i'd take some acid. It really seems to be capable of psychological change.
wake and bacon...reading your post puts me ashame. You're totally right.
Mr DMT: Viel Glück

Hey, i agree with what bancopuma said: you are a very likeable person, the way you come acros on the nexus. And i admire your honesty. It takes courage to be so open about such painfull feelings.

you are a brave person obliguhl.

I don't know about substances. They may be good allies, some of them. Ayahuasca has done miracles in my life, also socially.

But i would just try to be as open as you are here, to people that áre there in your life that matter to you.

If you feel isolated.
There are always some people that matter. Even if it's just your mom and dad.

Just be as brave as you are, and they won't judge you negatively. They will, just as we here, admire your honesty and openess.

Social anxiety disorder

obliguhl I truly feel for you. Those of us who have lived with this condition understand that it can be a debilitating curse.

I self-diagnosed SAD just a couple of years ago. When I was in the midst of it as a teen (back in the early '80s) it was not generally recognised. Only the complications (in my case alcoholism, clinical depression & body dysmorphic disorder) were treated.

Treatment for these complications consisted of the new wonder-drug Prozac (not very effective) in combination with residential rehab (including well-meaning but amateur cognitive counselling). My relapses into self-medication with alcohol of course only increased the self-loathing & depression. This low self-esteem which can result from an inability to function in society may prevent you from taking steps to treat yourself. Please don't let this happen - you must treat yourself.

You mentioned last year that you would try "Feeling Good - The New Mood Therapy" by David D. Burns, M.D. Did you work with this material? was it of any use? I ask because I am finally working through this myself and it has, so far, proved invaluable to me. I have now taken myself of the SNRIs (Venlafaxine- quite effective) and will, hopefully, no longer abuse alcohol.

You must understand that you are neither alone nor are you inadequate or in any way 'weird' - IT IS A RECOGNISED ILLNESS. Not only is treatment available (cognitive therapy, SNRIs etc) but FULL RECOVERY is possible. As burnt said- this kind of shit can take years.

Understand also that you will be projecting a lot of your difficulties onto other people. It's not always you - EVERYBODY out there is labouring under some degree of social dysfunction no matter how well adjusted they may appear to be.

I think that you will work this one out.

With the greatest respect


transitory

I used to have chronic social anxiety, when I was very young I couldn't even look new people in the face when speaking- I'd look down at my feet and kind of mutter and blush a lot. Even when I'd grown up more, in university classes if I had to speak I would start tripping over my words and blush a lot. I also get really physically anxious too- I shake and tremble noticeably. I felt like I had nothing valid to say and just got so nervous.. It made me feel even worse because around very, very close friends I had known for a long while- I knew the 'shy' girl wasn't me- I was outspoken, entertaining and confident. So I hated being that person as it didn't feel like me.

So I definitely understand how you feel.

Since then I've gotten over the large part of my social anxiety- I think depression and low self esteem was a large contributing factor. Voice and movement therapy, general changes in outlook, use of psychedelics and doofs* helped a lot, I still tremble a little but I can talk to new people with no trouble and am fairly confident. So maybe just try and find what is causing the problem- what emotional issues/factors are contributing to it, and try find things that you think will have a positive influence =) I think these things vary greatly for a lot of people.

*You's probably know the term but refers to outdoor psytrance parties held out in the forrest or bush. I've found since going to these, being around so many positive, happy people that share a lot of the same ideals- has made me feel more comfortable and at ease with myself.