DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1367 Joined: 19-Feb-2008 Last visit: 12-Jun-2016 Location: Pacific Northwest
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Yep Touche, it certainly sounds that way!
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 4804 Joined: 08-Dec-2008 Last visit: 18-Aug-2023 Location: UK
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I'd be interested in hearing why when more info is out.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 2291 Joined: 26-Mar-2008 Last visit: 12-Jan-2020 Location: The Thunderbolt Pagoda
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Incredible news! But we're not completely out of the woods, yet. Every so often, something like this raid may happen to jog us out of stagnation, and we need to seize on that.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 595 Joined: 19-Aug-2009 Last visit: 30-Apr-2011
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Frustrating that in this world of famous people Twittering whenever they take a leak, we aren't getting updates on this breaking news.
Understandable though. I'd be celebrating, too.
Edit: Looks like BBB has Pedro, P. Torch and Achuma for sale again. They must be confident that this is for real.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 4612 Joined: 17-Jan-2009 Last visit: 07-Mar-2024
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Very good news. Looking forward to hear any further developments in the coming days/weeks.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 373 Joined: 09-Oct-2009 Last visit: 15-Aug-2012 Location: On a desert planet
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Yes, this is great news. They still might be able to screw him over in the civil court if he tries to get his money and plants back, but at least it seems there will be no criminal charges.
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polyfather anomalous
Posts: 630 Joined: 14-Mar-2010 Last visit: 19-Jun-2017 Location: Region of Thud
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Very good news, that's surprising, because every interaction I had with them I had the underlying feeling that they were asking to get fucked. He got lucky, great news that there's no trial. The government may be looking for more cases like this to set clearer precedents. "...I didn't know that Cheshire cats always grinned; in fact, I didn't know that cats could grin..." - Alice's Adventures in Wonderland
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 295 Joined: 26-May-2008 Last visit: 08-May-2016
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I'm hoping that they just worried that they were trampling on the religious rights of anyone who might truly claim his religion as Shamanic and that the potential for weakening their ability to persecute people of this religious persuasion was a real possibility. I thank Jon for standing up for all of us otherwise law abiding people who are just following their true beliefs. I can't change what I truly believe just to conform to their prejudice. I currently have to hide my religious persuasion to protect my family and dependents from persecution from the government of the United States of America and their cronies around the world. Avatar art created by unknown Cambodian or Laotian. Everything else is fiction.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 595 Joined: 19-Aug-2009 Last visit: 30-Apr-2011
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memo wrote: I'm hoping that they just worried that they were trampling on the religious rights of anyone who might truly claim his religion as Shamanic and that the potential for weakening their ability to persecute people of this religious persuasion was a real possibility. I thank Jon for standing up for all of us otherwise law abiding people who are just following their true beliefs. I can't change what I truly believe just to conform to their prejudice. I currently have to hide my religious persuasion to protect my family and dependents from persecution from the government of the United States of America and their cronies around the world. I seriously doubt that the spiritual rights of entheogen users was even a consideration in dropping these charges. Jon has done a lot to spread wonderful ethnobotanicals, but his business practices (read:GREED) put the entire community at risk and brought a lot of unwanted public attention.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1367 Joined: 19-Feb-2008 Last visit: 12-Jun-2016 Location: Pacific Northwest
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Memo, that would make no sense. If you claim the religious right to use a scheduled material, you have to either petition the DEA or sue the state for the right. Furthermore, one of the requirements for religious protection using scheduled materials is that there is no risk of diversion (ie for Jon to have this right, there must be no risk that anyone else could get any of his sacramental plants or plant materials)... the fact that he sold them eliminates ANY chance of a religious defense holding any water. Whatever the reason the charges were [dropped or dismissed, whichever the case may be], it wasn't based on any fear of trampling on religious freedoms.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1367 Joined: 19-Feb-2008 Last visit: 12-Jun-2016 Location: Pacific Northwest
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One point I saw raised on another forum, and I think it's a good one: One possible reason the charges were dropped could be that the gov't was afraid of the legal consequences of a potential outcome. It's entirely possible that a court could rule that "any material containing any amount" is too vague to be constitutional (it makes pet shops and animal shelters just as illegal as ethno vendors if the proprietors happen to be aware that mice contain DMT, among many other inane examples). It's entirely possible that the charges were dropped because the government didn't want to risk the possibility of the CSA being declared unconstitutional.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 295 Joined: 26-May-2008 Last visit: 08-May-2016
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Entropymancer wrote:If you claim the religious right to use a scheduled material, you have to either petition the DEA or sue the state for the right. I bet there was a similar procedure for Jews in Nazi Germany. Even though I know this is my inalienable right I know how far ( or should I say how much time) petitioning the DEA would get me. I do believe that there have been a lot of positive outcomes by the use of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act and I do believe that this is one example where it should be used to protect people from persecution for exercising their inalienable religious rights. I'm not saying that this was a factor in this case what I am saying is that it should have been a factor in this case. Avatar art created by unknown Cambodian or Laotian. Everything else is fiction.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 5826 Joined: 09-Jun-2008 Last visit: 08-Sep-2010 Location: USA
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Although it looked bad from the start, my gut feeling was always that somehow the charges would be dropped. This is good news, partially. It would have been nicer if they won in court though. I think they would have. To this day no court in the USA has convicted anyone of selling Trichocereus cacti, morning glory seeds, etc. Many cases have been brought to court, but they all ended with the charges being dropped, and now we can add the BBB case to that list. You may remember me as 69Ron. I was suspended years ago for selling bunk products under false pretenses. I try to sneak back from time to time under different names, but unfortunately, the moderators of the DMT-Nexus are infinitely smarter than I am.
If you see me at the waterpark, please say hello. I'll be the delusional 50 something in the American flag Speedo, oiling up his monster guns while responding to imaginary requests for selfies from invisible teenage girls.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 776 Joined: 27-Jan-2010 Last visit: 07-Aug-2019 Location: uk
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Does anyone know if they have had their confiscated goods and properties returned? It seemed from initial reports that one purpose of the raid was to financially ruin BBB, and effectively put them out of business. "at journey's end, we must begin again"
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 3555 Joined: 13-Mar-2008 Last visit: 07-Jul-2024 Location: not here
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Awesome news that the charges are being dropped. Hahahha kansas law enforcement. Bunch of losers.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1052 Joined: 18-Jan-2008 Last visit: 29-Jun-2017 Location: Earth, of course??
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Weeeee! Where are the dancing pink elephants when you need them? "Within your heart is a lotus, and within this lotus is a diamond. This diamond is the source of creation, and in all the creation, there is only one lotus."
"Only from the Heart can you touch the sky." ~ Rumi
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 351 Joined: 25-Jul-2009 Last visit: 25-May-2016 Location: Europe
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Well, i hope two things: 1)That BBB change their bussiness practices abit,maybe remembering the older days where vendors where not "superstarts/demigods of aggresive marketing" 2)That it will take more than one month after the "storm" for people in forums to forget that planting the plants are a great way to be selfsufficient and that making moves toward liberties in such matters is a good move.I hope the coalition does not lose its steam. Its rather characteristic of human nature needing "periodical scares" or "the presence of an enemy in the background" to keep up putting in practice some good ideas that we all could benefit from...Playing clever even without the presence of a boogeyman should be an ideal
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 2291 Joined: 26-Mar-2008 Last visit: 12-Jan-2020 Location: The Thunderbolt Pagoda
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69ron wrote:This is good news, partially. It would have been nicer if they won in court though. I think they would have. I think so too, but it may better to face this on our own terms, rather than being pressured into it by the immanent threat of legal consequence. In any case, this is a good sign: That even a state like Kansas isn't confident enough in its own laws to take down one of the biggest targets in the community bodes very well for the future.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 174 Joined: 10-Feb-2010 Last visit: 30-Oct-2014 Location: Above the Neck and Between the Ears
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I always wonder how this current generation will compare to the next. The next generation seems more open but again they are still young. One can only hope and try to spread knowledge. OpeningPandorasBox is a fictional character created by a very imaginative but delusional person. Anything posted by OpeningPandorasBox should be considered nothing more than the incoherent ramblings of an imaginary alter ego. Under no circumstances should what is posted be considered true experiences, ideas, or advice. As far as matters of the law are concerned since OpeningPandorasBox only exists outside the realms of physical reality he is under no jurisdiction and no one within the physical world should attempt to recreate or reenact any of his fictional activity.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 10 Joined: 09-Feb-2010 Last visit: 01-May-2011
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88 wrote:Does anyone know if they have had their confiscated goods and properties returned? It seemed from initial reports that one purpose of the raid was to financially ruin BBB, and effectively put them out of business. They have not returned any products, property or money. They still have his son's savings account - all $1600.00. They still have his lawnmower of all things. In fact, if he were to put any money into the bank, they would seize it. He is still faced with the unconstitutional $900,000 drug tax. It makes one wonder what kind of society is it that can levy a nearly million $ drug tax on someone who is not actually charged with selling any drugs. Jon will by filing a lawsuit next week against the state of Kansas to get his money back.
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