You always need to be careful when drawing a conclusion from any study. You need to know how the study is performed. Remember, even water is shown to cause brain damage in rats fed water continuously.

hmm..i have some rue alkaloids from manske I will try them one day sublingually to see how they compare to caapi..I have been wanting to take some before i smoke bufotenine as well one day.

The study I saw that showed harmaline was neurotoxic in rats also found ibogaine to be neurotoxic in the exact same way. But the rats had very large doses, larger than any person would ingest to activate DMT.

I am not a rat. Keep in mind that chocolate can kill a dog. I eat chocolate all the time, and I’m still very happily alive.

yeah thats the problem with rat testing..im not a rat either.

Also note that ZINC is shown to be NEUROTOXIC in rats. But you need zinc to be healthy. So don’t suddenly stop having zinc in your diet just because of some lab test somewhere. Lab tests mean little until you known the true meaning of the lab test. Pretty much everything is toxic if enough is taken.

A good example of this, a very small dose of LSD can kill an elephant. The LD50 for LSD is 46 mg/kg in mice, 16.5 mg/kg in rats, 0.3 mg/kg in rabbits and 0.1 mg/kg in elephants. That’s a huge 460 fold variance in toxicity. 16.5 mg/kg in rats amounts to about 1155 mg for a 70 kilogram adult human. 0.1 mg/kg for an elephant amounts to about 7 mg for a 70 kilogram adult human. Many people have taken more than 7 mg of LSD and lived. If people relied on animal tests to asses toxicity and only tested the elephant, they’d probably never consider trying LSD. Leary talks of someone taking as much as 30 mg of LSD in one shot and he was fine! That's 4.25 times the LD50 for an elephant!

I wasn't sure if I could hold it together enough to deal with other people on 16 grams.... I'm quite sure 600 would have been a disaster!

Pokey

It might be worth extracting the actives and then measuring your doses and stepping it up a little each time, dissolving the powder in juice or whatever. Plant material can vary quite a bit so this way you will know exactly how much you have taken and from judging the effects you can adjust that to a comfortable level.

That is excellent advice. I'm a little nervous about drinking the jar I have left. Definitely going to be more prepared and also respect the sediment.

Pokey

To update this thread:

I still felt sick the day after, but it was bearable. 2 days after the experience I was almost back to normal. At day 3 everything was gone. 30g is too much for me. But I had this dream, you know....

I had the chance to drink pharmahuasca at the exact moment of a supernova brightening the night sky and I was told that I could melt into that supernova and that I was giving up a once in a lifetime chance.

Then during a vaped experience, a beeing who felt like god told me to drink ayahuasca/pharmahuasca.

So I was thinking 10g caapi + 20mg fasi fumarate (to honor psychosisdosis and sporks intense experiences at just littler higher doses.) If this proves to be weak, there's always the option of additional vaping, no?

I just drank a strong cup of yerba mate, and it seemed to bring on SOME of the effects I had this day...I consumed a little mate prior to drinking ayahuasca...so mate might hae played into that state.

Yeah - Yerba mate is pretty complex (as I'm sure you know). I don't believe that it contains tyramine specifically, but it's very possible that the body could convert some of it's alkaloids and / or compounds into tyramine, or other MAOI no-no's. Just speculating here.

I'm glad you're feeling better man! I'm just getting to reading this thread.

The other day I made of tea of 25g caapi and 1500ml of distilled water with lemon juice, boiled down three time's over about 2 hours, and had mildly psychedelic sensations. Clearly active, but nothing notably remarkable.

Peace,
-idt

Yes, I've read that mate is more than just clorophylle and caffeeine. I'm definatly getting a body high from it and I flush. I've checked before and found out that mate is actually used as an admixture to aya brews, like its cousin guayusa. It's like the aya amplified the negative effects i seem to get from mate.

I'll still try only 10g the next time. Glad you were having a good one with 25g

Im entirely not sold on that...

SWIM had some friends who went down to the amazon and this fellow had a psychotic break and gutted himself in the river because he thought he had a snake inside his stomach. coarse we could say that happened because of a lot of things... but that was surely the trigger... SWIMS beenthere it cansurely make you feel psychotic at times.

another reason why i dont like high levels of harmaline...