I just got an email from Bouncing Bear Botanicals titled 'The wonders of kratom'??

I didn't open it. Is anyone else getting emails like this?

Got it, too.

Don't think I'll be ordering from them anytime soon.

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K

I got it too. Was going to start a thread asking what the deal is with Kratom. I've seen the name a few times around here, anyone care to educate me? Maybe 69ron?

I'd be happy to order from BBB. Jon needs the $ to defend himself, and by extension defend all of us as well.

Pokey

I know he needs the money. But i don't think this is the right way to go about getting it.

"We held off on listing Kratom Isolate after our small initial test order because we knew as soon as it went for sale and word got out, we were going to need a lot more. We are now stocked up with plenty of reserves (we hope) to supply the inevitable demand.

So, how do you get 20% off? Just enter this coupon code on checking out: NEWS20

Winter may be a bummer, but click here and we'll help you get through it!"

This is understandable... However they offer you to make a donation.
But his friend probably think the donation isn't getting near as far as they need (900 OOO $) so decided to take further action.
Could it get worse ? Kratom alcaloids are not scheduled which was not the case of other compounds found in the plants that were used to charge him.

Please do not support BBB. By such actions as this mail, they show they only care about the cash. That means we should boycott them. Of course everyone cares about cash, but not everyone cares only about cash. However injustice and fucked up the actions of the authorities have been, Jon dug his own grave.

I treid some 60x kratom last year while in london.

I didn't really feel that awesome compared to just smoking MJ.

I think it's not worth the hazzle!

Just watch out for that supplier trying to hook you on addicting substances.

Exactly! Here BBB is trying to sell an addictive opiate-like substance to people by claiming it will help them through the winter. The only intention is to make a profit over people's inability to cope with negativity! That is not one bit better than the heroin pushers at the corner! Dealing is fine, pushing is NOT!

Well when the feds seize your cash crop you've got to change markets. Thats what this is they still need to make a profit.

If I sell LSD to my friends when they call me to ask for it, but then get busted and need cash for a lawyer, is it okay for me to call all my friends and push this killer opium I have that will help them cope with the winter?

BBB would not have this problem if they didn't promote their products the way they did and continue to do. They wouldn't have any problems if they tried to fly under the radar. That is a fact! Instead, they tried and was successful in becoming a huge business "everybody" knew about. Cash, cash, cash... Fuck you, BBB! They dug their own grave - end of discussion.

Don't forget their countless accounts at various boards created in order to advertise their products. Don't forget Neurosoup's involvement with BBB... Don't forget what kind she turned out to be!

I'm really not sure how to react to the email. On the one hand, I think he is pushing the legal limits; after all, they don't feel like they are doing anything wrong. I don't really feel that he was doing anything wrong. I don't like people who are in it for profit, but I do support the proliferation of knowledge and materials.

On the other hand, it may turn out "bad" for us and our future. By pushing the limits, bbb is not just testing the legal limits, but may be throwing more fuel to the fire. This is probably a bad metaphor, but many "radicals" push the limits of the legal system to show the absurdity of the system. BUT, in return the "system" fights back and people get hurt or killed. Those in charge want to punish insubordination and always will.

This is an interesting link: http://www.quackwatch.or...merProtection/dshea.html

Maybe SWIM is different but come on' kratom is not addictive as that. SWIM tried it a few time and sometimes a few days in hte row, and it just doesn't work anymore after three days, tolerance build so fast and last for two weeks minimum...
SWIM wouldn't compare this to opium!
Nonetheless I see your point about pushing a winter warmer...

Granted, kratom is not as addictive as heroin. But it is acting at opiate-receptors, and has VERY severe withdrawal symptoms if one are hooked. It may not be as easy to get hooked on as heroin or opium, but it IS very addictive! The withdrawal symptoms are severe and very similar to opiates, lasting around a week including long-time insomnia, panic attacks, severe depression and extreme restlessness in the body.

While I have nothing against this herb or suppliers of this herb, I think sending advertisement emails like this is an extreme violation of everything called moral and ethics! Again, be a dealer as much as you want, but don't be a god damn pusher! Jon deserves the punishment he for sure will get. I'm sorry, but he truly does.

Kratom has it's purposes:
1. An extremely viable resource for helping people get off of opiates and bypass the evils of methadone.
2. An effective herbal analgesic for those who either can not use, or prefer not to use prescription opiates.

I think everyone here is pretty much on the right page despite the differences of opinion. Kratom IS absolutely addictive, although on 1-10 scale, with heroin being a 10, I'd personally put Kratom at a 4 for plain leaf, 5 - 6 (or possibly higher) if one is using high strength extracts. I personally would not recommend using Kratom for recreational purposes. Why bother when there are soooooo many, MUCH better, non-addictive options. i.e. The Caapi tea that I am enjoying right now.

With regard to BBB. Although I've never been a supporter, I completely understand it's position as business. It is an ethnobotanical supplier who unconstitutionally had a significant portion of it's product seized by the Feds. BBB still has a business to run and bills to pay, so they are simply moving forward with their business. Regardless of our ethical view about the "pushing" of Kratom, the choice to purchase addictive substances for recreational use is ours and ours alone. I am personally grateful that there are suppliers who make Kratom available to those who need it (although I don't support tagging it as a recreational substance, or legal high). It takes years for a high alkaloid Kratom tree to grow, so it's not like we can all grow them in our gardens.

A note of interest: Currently Kratom suppliers in the US and abroad are facing serious issues with fraudulent purchases from "customers", and many of them are losing their asses right now. This is an inherent consequence of selling addictive substances. Inevitably, drug addiction spurs crime, and the suppliers are eventually going to be victimized by this crime. I guess my point is that trying to boost Kratom sales is probably not the best means to an end for BBB.

So, that's my 20 cents...

Peace,
-idt

Thanks for all the info on Kratom. Certainly nothing I'm interested in trying.

As far as supporting BBB, that legal battle that Jon is fighting will have an effect on us all. Regardless of his responsibility for bringing it on himself, the outcome of that court case will be a major factor in future prosecutions, especially in the US.

Pokey

Exactly. We need to support them NO MATTER WHAT YOU THINK OF BBB. We really have no choice here. This situation was thrust upon us by BBB and the FDA, and the outcome of this case will affect all of us. We need to support them. We are forced to.

It's my understanding that Sloan is not allowed to work there or talk to anyone at BBB because of the case, so he did not send out that email, someone else did. Maybe the FDA did in order to knock down support for BBB. Who the hell knows. It's not from Sloan.

Thanks this ron

It's a well needed reminder that no matter how we all feel about this email we should STILL SUPPORT them if we can because this case is extremely important and will affect us all.. regardless of how we feel about a few peoples marketing techniques

So BBB is still up and running. I thought they just closed the shop.

As it is right now BBB has not been found guilty of a single thing. Until they are, it's business as usual.

I love Kratom.

Very good anti stress for work it is a good eurphoria lasts a good 6 hours or more.
It is however addictive. I do not use it for more than a week at a time.
I have not ordered any for quite some time. I like the extracts. They can be quite potient.

I dont suppose any members of this forum have used kratom in their changa (sic?) ?