I have seen some threads comparing different forms of different things, but I was looking for a general explanation of the primary differences, if any, between oral use consumption of the salt or freebase form for both Dmitrius and Harmala. My understanding thus far is, other than some molecular weight variance, that the freebase is always converted back to salt in stomach due to interaction with hydrochloric acid. However, as far as lingahuasa/sublingual administration, I imagine this wouldn't apply. The feeling I always got from accumulated reading of random posts was that salt-form, was for some reason, a better choice for oral use. Regardless, at this point, I am not so convinced of that, and I am sincerely asking for some feedback regarding this situation. Thanks very much for the time... And of course I recognize that in addition to the standard dichotomy between salt and base, that there are also differences between salt versions, and between base versions as well, the most recent addition being the Fumarate Salts...

freebase dmt burns quite nastily in the tongue.. it also feels 'caustic' to the stomach if swallowed without pre-converting it to salt form (like redissolving in a bit of orange juice or something). Even though the stomach acid does convert anyways dmt to its hydrochloride salt, this conversion is not immediate (even when you put in the orange juice, many times it takes a while of swirling around and pressing the chunks with some spoon so it dissolves completely, so the same happens in your stomach if you take freebase). So the speed of absorption also changes and may have an effect on the trip. Ive heard some people claiming phosphate has the fastest absorption but I dont know how true that is. I just always dissolve things in orange juice and its fine, just follow with fresh orange juice because it tastes kinda bad

The first two times I took dmt orally, I didnt know better, so I swallowed unconverted freebase and I had quite a strong nausea during the trip, and the taste of dmt kept coming up to the throat somehow, not nice..

For harmalas, more or less the same thing, except they are not nearly as 'caustic' as dmt (you can use them sublingually quite ok, for example).

Endlessness pretty much summed it up.

There are times when freebase doesn’t dissolve properly. SWIM has had this happen a few times and got NO EFFECTS AT ALL. So that’s something to keep in mind when making capsules for pharmahuasca. Freebase DMT is poorly soluble in water and takes a while to convert to a salt. It’s always better to use DMT fumarate or some other salt form if you take it in capsules. DMT fumarate is the most stable salt form of DMT that’s dry. Most other salts of DMT are oily. If you make a drink from it, you can use freebase DMT, just make sure you put it in orange juice (this concerts it to DMT citrate) or something else that’s acidic. Mix it thoroughly before drinking. The conversion from DMT to DMT citrate is not instantaneous.

Like Endlessness said, many people claim that DMT phosphate works better than any other salt form of DMT. I have read this many times on different forums, so it’s probably true. Its said to absorb faster, so it’s stronger. But faster absorption also means a shorter trip. DMT fumarate should give slower absorption and a longer trip.

I assume of course you are referring to the Base forms like those that precipitate from a Sodium Carbonate basification.

Well then I am wondering what method is best to address the ideal re-conversion of the Caapi harmalas back to base.
I guess the orange juice idea would work here too, toward the end of drinking down the hatch.
Or one could have a Manske salting be the last run done on Caapi alkaloids; since I see the manske and sodium carbonate being alternated in the most recent techs.
However, I guess any sodium chloride is not desirable in final product, which is why Washing Soda Basification is usually the final stage on Harmalas.
I guess I'll have to read through some posts and figure out what is being done to the Base Cappi Alkaloids prior to ingestion.

One thing that concerns me then regarding the most recent Q21Q21's observations of Dmitrius' conversion back to freebase from acetate with drying with temperature.
I guess since my primary objective is maintaining the salt form, either I don't completely evaporate (which is bad for accurate yield measurement), or one re-dissolves back in vinegar. I can see the advantage to the Fumarate approach then at this point. However, as SWIM has been following the food-grade nontoxic developments and approaches for some time, the idea of the lime, Limonene, and Vinegar has really struck as the most user friendly along those lines. Of course, considering the stability and handle-ability of the Fumerate Salts, this approach seems to have its merits as well-- and can even be performed with Grain Alcohol-- albeit with some loss.

As far as the Phosphoric possibilities, has anyone devised a way to salt out phosphates into a handle-able solid. I'm guessing that at the right concentration, phosphoric acid water might pull the base from Limonine, just like vinegar; then this could be evaporated-- and even dried with out the resulting re-freebase conversion because the Phosphoric, unlike acetic acid, does not evaporate.

Sorry if i swayed off topic. and sorry for the ramble; if I am thinking out loudly I apologize.

have the freebase dmt but redissolve back in orange juice.. vinegar doesnt taste nice

and yeah I had meant harmalas freebase.. but I wouldnt do manske on them, because first of all as you said it will have salt contamination, but also because I have read (but this is still unconfirmed) that THH does not precipitate in a manske, thats why manskes are recommended only with syrian rue extractions, because this step eliminates some more nasty alkaloids that anyways are not present in caapi.

again, why not just have the freebase for accurate measurement, and redissolve your dose in orange juice when you want to drink?

as for dmt phosphate, no you cant get a solid, apparently, its a goo.. seems fumarate is the only solid salt

Well, thanks for the response, I'll have to look to see if anyone completed a full range Phosphoric salting. IT seems it would be interesting for a side by side with the Full range acetates. As for the Orange Juice, I find that an interesting choice simply because swim's absolute favorite Fresh Cubensis was taken this way using a blender. The final drink had absolutely zero taste of shroom, which surprised swim. Makes me wonder what orange juice does, if any thing to the 4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine? Anyway, thanks for the sharing pathway from the knowledgeable to the less knowledgeable...

you can just redissolve your freebase alkaloids in coca-cola and drink that, then it should be in phosphate form because of the phosphoric acid in it, and you can compare yourself with another day taking with orange juice...

BTW, is there a simple way to re-convert the Caapi sodium carbonate basified harmalas back to salt form in dry powder form; instead of adding it to a liquid to drink, i.e orange juice for harmala citrate?

For example, could one simply re-dissolve the tan freebase in some vinegar and then evaporate that to have dried harmala acetates. Is there another cool way to do this. Thanks for your consideration knowledgeable ones...