SWIM wonders if it could be used to dissolve freebase, perhaps? I've only ever used coconut oil to clean my hands.



Sorry, no idea.


SWIM made a new spice tincture by placing 1.3g spice fumarate (~1g freebase) in a 15mL dropper bottle, filling with glycerin and water at ~1:2, placing in a hot water bath and shaking vigorously. So that's 66mg/mL of DMT and about 2.3mg/drop. SWIM would need maybe 10-15 drops for linguahuasca. SWIM will likely try this with a harmine/harmaline/THH combo at 2:1:1 w/ 20 drops (70mg) total.

Coconut oil is very heat stable so it makes an excellent cooking and frying oil. It has a smoke point of about 360°F (180°C). SO I assume it would dissolve the product without smoking itself. Although it turns back to oil instantly in the mouth, Coconut Oil, because solidified in fridge, would be very easy to handle: a little scoop is all you need. Have you thought of making hard candy?
The challenge is probable the 300 degrees necessary to harden the sugar,
Hmmm maybe Coconut Oil Hard DMT/THH Candy

http://www.lowcarbfriend...product.php/product/4575

Wait I've got it: Raw Chocolate DMT Harmala Coconut Candy:

http://circleofhealers.com/journal/?p=48

P.S. The raw chocolate coconut candies never get cooked!
So just dissolve your alkaloids in Hot Coconut oil, then proceed with the recipe!
Stick em in your freezer; pull em out and suck slowly...

SWIM just tried 50mg THH and 42mg jimjam acetates, he has now honed the sublingual technique... but as he suspected 42mg of DMT was not nearly enough for him.

SWIM even took 21mg more about 15 minutes after spitting out the second batch of 6 drops, it definately seemed to increase the effects, SWIM was feeling nearly nothing DMT-like before that.

currently (1.5 hours in) he feels pretty much identical to the effects of a pharma with 63mg would do. (slight tracers, obvious change in headspace, no OEV or CEV) Though naturally the 50mg of THH was significantly stronger than oral.

SWIM thinks that the dose of DMT in the tek should be changed to something like "about 75 to 100 percent of your typical pharma dose of DMT, tolerance varies greatly"

SWIM would bet money his roomie would not even feel the DMT effects at all from 63mg, only the THH effects.
(he orally took 125mg rue harmalas and 135mg white DMT and compared it as strong as 1g to 1.5g of cubensis)

SWIM doesn't get this spitting or swallowing business. He understands that if sublingually experimenting with a dose equivalent to an oral dose, one would would spit it out to avoid swallowing in order to gauge the results as purely sublingual, but with the low doses SWIM recommends for linguahuasca along with the techniques, there is no need to to spit, as anything that made it to the stomach would not contribute strongly enough to be felt at all. Also, with the techniques SWIM uses, there's simply no amount of anything to swallow or spit; he would have to work up spit just to manage one.

The only swallowing that should be going on is swallowing saliva before it dilutes the tincture or powder; that way if any amount of tincture is swallowed, it will likely absorb before it reaches the stomach. SWIM would never recommend spitting at all, as it just sounds like a waste of product. So far, SWIM has managed to get strong effects each time, except for once when skimping on harmaloids, and has successfully coached a friend in his techniques.

The way that SWIM does it is that he essentially "paints" his mucous membrane with the tincture using the bottom of his tongue, pressing a bit firmly when doing so. If that seems like a challenge, try using the tip of your index finger to do it. He doesn't know how many ways he can explain it, but whenever he sees bad reports, there always seems to be a clear flaw in technique.

q21q21, SWIM also wonders whether SWIY is using the weight of gooey acetates or freebase weights? SWIM only ever goes by freebase weights.

the weight was of freebase and SWIM's not saying anything is wrong with the technique and figures his technique is fine since he can get STRONG effects off of only 40mg THH (without DMT).
Seeing how orally he could barely feel 125mg he's quite sure his technique isn't flawed

Spitting out has never seemed to lessen the effects, while SWIM is grateful of the suggestion of spreading the drops and seperating the doses into small batches, etc
He thinks that from there he will make his technique his own, one that won't require such detailed coaching.

SWIM will do additional tests likely with rue harmalas to figure out the ample time before spitting out, he figures the 5 minutes he waits is probably more than is needed.

SWIM is just saying that just like with pharma, LSD, psilocybin and most psychedelics, people have various tolerances.

Just like any people can get full OEVs off of only 30mg of DMT via pharma while SWIM's roomie gets almost nothing off of 135mg and SWIM himself wouldn't be able to feel 30mg (except some nausea).
Just like SWIM was rendered completely immobile and useless while tripping his face off on 3 hits of LSD, and the same batch his friend took 4 hits (at the same time) to even feel it.

Tolerance is tolerance and SWIM thinks it should be understood and noted.

That sounds like too little THH. Its a weaker maoi than harmine/harmaline so you need more. Swim thinks if you upped that to ~90-100mg THH swiy may have a better result.

I don't know where you heard that but it's wrong. For activating DMT, THH as an MAOI is as strong as harmine in SWIM, pretty much equal. Harmaline is about 2 times stronger than THH or harmine, but harmine is not stronger than THH. For SWIM, he needs 200 mg of THH or 200 mg of harmine for full MAOI effects orally. With harmaline, he only needs 100 mg orally.

Keep in mind that THH is also a weak SSRI, so this may explain why it's MAOI activating effects for DMT are equal to that of harmine.

I've had full MAOI effects from 112mg THH combined with 300mg theobromine and it was my longest DMT experience ever. Easily 6-7 hours. Harmaline with the same dose theobromine seemed more intense while it lasted but didn't last as long as THH. I'm still yet to work with pure harmine. Without theobromine I've been as low as 80mg with harmaline and it still effectively gave MAOI but only for around 2 hours.

These were all oral experiments, so I don't know how they'd relate to the sublingual route.

For some reason swim got it in his head that THH was even weaker than harmine, swims mistake. Swim still thinks there is nothing to lose by increasing the THH and seeing if that works.

SWIM almost never goes higher than 30mg for THH (30mg is highly stimulating on its own) except for when activating sublingual spice, in which he would have to agree with mumbles on that point.



Whatever works. It just seemed like a lot of spice to SWIM.



See, this is one of SWIM's strongest points of contention, as he never waits and yet manages full pharma experiences (comparable to 80mg DMT w/ 200mg harmaloids orally) from less than half the normal oral amount sublingually.



This is still a possibility, but people's reports of their techniques don't have SWIM convinced. Unless the techniques are nearly identical, how can the dosage be compared? SWIM used to take pharma in capsules, and while the experience varied greatly, it was usually a bit weaker than it should have been. Then he would take harmaloids in a shot, wait for period, and take DMT and more harmaloids in a second shot, which was more reliable but still not strong enough. It wasn't 'til he started simply taking it all in one shot that he reached the level he had been striving for, but still not so reliably as he would hope. During this development, his dose of spice reduced from in excess of 100mg to around 50mg while steadily increasing in effects as he improved his technique.

SWIM wasn't satisfied with his technique for oral pharmahuasca, just as he wasn't satisfied with the standard methods of sublingual administration, so he improved his techniques and was completely blown away by the difference it made. So far, no one seems to have replicated SWIM's technique and reported it, and it's of little surprise to SWIM, judging by the quality of reported experience and the amounts in use. SWIM has tried many methods and now uses as little as he has ever used to greater effect with the development of his technique, so he believes that if someone were to replicate this technique, they would notice a vast difference in the experience of whatever amount they chose to take; only then could SWIM begin to consider the possibility of personal tolerance variations.


SWIM simply wouldn't use any of the techniques reported, as they seem to include too many variables and require higher doses than he would like, considering his own experience. The biggest variable that SWIM is not comfortable with is time: SWIM doesn't allow enough time for anything other than absorption to occur (not enough time for dilution, thus no possibility of swallowing and reduced chance of incomplete absorption) and does not spread out the doses, timewise (spice chasing harmaloids as soon as possible). SWIM's techniques work well, and if he had any indication that anyone else's technique was more efficient, he would attempt to master that technique.

SWIM's got a fair amount of rue harmalas. And using it in the afternoon makes dreams really weird. Might as well give it a try

It seems that SWIY are pretty devoted to the sublingual method.

Really it is just when SWIM tried to use the bottom of his tongue last time the nasty stuff spilled all over his tongue even though he only used about .5ml.
The action of swallowing the saliva while having actives sitting on the salivary ducts seems a little ridiculous too.

SWIM will give it another go but SWIM's method seems a little easier and he believe equi-potent

Spread drops (usually 5 - 8 ) under the tongue using a mirror with your tongue on the roof of your mouth.
in order to allow more surface area hold tongue either very gently against the roof of the mouth or against the top teeth.
Using some sort of tool he spreads it around, hasn't quite found the right one, but the finger seems a little big and could probably hold onto several of the drops after removal from the mouth
When done, spit out into sink or whatever. There will be a little of saliva buildup even if the mouth is dry beforehand, even if none is tasted.

SWIM has not seen a difference between holding for 5 vs 10 minutes. He's going to try to test the minimum in subsequent tests.

But he will try the "brushing with the bottom of the tongue while painstakingly swallowing the saliva" method.... (sorry if that is a little rude sounding..)

SWIM doesn't worry so much about getting it on the top of his tongue. His main concern is getting it absorbed as quickly as possible and keeping the liquid as thin as possible. This is a technique that he was forced to develop very quickly to avoid having his mouth burned by vinegar, and it turned out to be incredibly effective; it took next to no practice, just epiphany.

Just make sure when SWIY swallows excess saliva, to do it immediately and rapidly, and to keep the tongue down against the bottom of the mouth so that tincture is not allowed to be washed out. The taste will be horrible, but SWIM's gotten accustomed to it and doesn't even drink water to wash his mouth 'til he's well into the experience.

SWIM had/is having an incredibly powerful experience from two sets of 6 drops THH (12drops, aprx. 42mg THH OAc− [abbr?]) and two sets of 5 drops spice (10drops, aprx. 23mg spice fumarate). He can now explore lower doses of spice to find an amount that would allow him to walk around and enjoy the outdoors (i.e. mescaline-like).

Bear with SWIM, as his sublingual technique is largely left to instinct at this point. SWIM now supposes that sublingual absorption is accompanied by the likelihood of absorption in the oropharynx. SWIM would best suppose that the absorption occurring isn't strictly that of the sublingual mucosa, but more generally that of the greater oral mucosa. Saliva accumulates with the purpose of washing substances into the rest of the digestive track, but swallowing immediately and rapidly will prevent any tincture from being washed too far into the track. Rapid and immediate swallowing will result in the tincture coating the oral mucosa as far as the oropharynx but likely no further.

SWIM may have to rename this method of administration, "Mucosahuasca," as short for "Oral Mucosahuasca." What this finding presents is the possibility of developing an effective spray administration, possibly just as effective in the nose as in the throat (for the throat, SWIM could imagine a pressurized spritzer being incredibly effective, especially if one would like to dissolve the product in a more viscous substance). Glycerine will be key in making this a bearable process by enabling the elimination of excess acid while preserving a solution with an adequate shelf-life. From SWIM's experience, this could be accomplished with either a fumarate or an acetate.

Edit:
Here's a good reference for the possibility of using a spray: https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/d...aspx?g=posts&m=80634

SWIM's thinking that one could choose to spray in the nose or to spray the bottom of the tongue.

SWIM's also renewing his interest in this, but he'll stay the course for the time being and hopefully move up to an effective windowpane recipe. He'd like to cover a sort of hierarchy of mucosa administration, starting with the most readily available powders, then dropwise tinctures, then sprays, then windowpane. He wants to be able to compare all of these and get the doses as low as possible in each. For example, if the low doses he's using now with drop-wise tincture work as well as they do, he would want to develop a spray that works just as well, if not better; the same would go for windowpane when he gets to that point.

Swims suspects his tincture went bad after about 10 days. He mixed his spice n-oxide with acetic acid, heated, evaped, and scraped goo into tincture bottle then topped up with 50:50 vinegar:glycerine. It now tests ever so slightly basic and lots of particles can be seen floating around (besides the dirt from having a fan blow over wet spice for a day or two for the n-oxide conversion). So beware people and keep those liquids acidic and test them! So for the moment swim will keep hot vinegar on hand and dissolve the min amount of alks (for two) in that and then load up two droppers. Adds another 10mins but who cares really.

Swim is very interested in a spray, it would be more efficient as far as absorbtion and administration goes (not to mention easier!), but there might be an issue of incorrect dosing because of some liquid still left in the line or unable to move into the tube. This could be corrected by using a more dilute solution of the alkaloid but that sort of defeats the purpose of administering sublingually and using as little a volume as possible.

One idea for producing a cleaner tincture is to stuff a filter in a syringe and use it to transfer to a new bottle. 10 days seems like an incredibly short period of time for the tincture to go bad. It was seriously basic? Is it possible that during the heat/evap, SWIM may have produced a bit of freebase (assuming what SWIY had wasn't necessarily pure n-oxide)? This would account for floating particles if the amount vinegar used was too small.



That's the big challenge SWIM's been considering, finding a spray pump that's accurate. The amount in each spray should be about two drops worth, but 6+ sprays would likely be a bit much in the nose. It may be bearable under the tongue, though. Also, since a pump contains such a small amount, over and underdosing due to the mechanical limitations of the pump shouldn't be a huge problem.

How does one dissolve so much spice in so little liquid? Does it settle out or is it fully dissolved?

My friend was going to evap half the vinegar and replace with DMSO. so 50/50 Vinegar/DMSO for both the DMT Acetate and Syrian Rue tincture. Anyone have any idea of the effectiveness of this? 69Ron?

Anyone have any suggestions of the effective sub lingual dose of Syrian Rue tincture? Not a purchased FV but homemade (manske)The reason I ask is 80mg alone didn't seem to do much, very slight tracer/euphoria (maybe placebo)

Thank you all.

there is a very minute amount of sediment, but SWIM believes this to be residual fumaric acid. FV' tinctures are a bit more concentrated than SWIM's spice tincture, so SWIM's actually wondering if he could get more in there. He tried to take a photo, but his camera just couldn't get clear enough to show this. A hot water bath is essential, then vigorous shaking.

SWIM's likely going to take his old acetate tincture, get rid of excess acetic, dilute to a high concentration with warm water, and load into a smoking implement dropwise, as q21q21 recommends.



Most seem to feel DMSO is horrid under the tongue.

DMSO has never bothered my friend. If it aids in absorbtion I feel any discomfort would be worth it IMO.

Amor, how did your glycerin/water tincture pan out?