Is 5 points really that much of a big deal though? I mean, REALLY? If I found out my IQ had dropped from say 115 to 110, I'm not exactly going to feel like the worlds ended, neither do I think I would notice a distinct drop in intelligence or problem solving or what have you.

Regardless, do you think that the drop in IQ score is due to the sort of lifestyle effects of cannabis rather than the actual effect on brain tissue of the drug itself? My point being that when stoned, one does not tend to engage themselves in activities that might require someone to think hard and concentrate, or rather it is not possible to do so well (I know this because while studying for biochemistry exams, if I was stoned I'd read pages of text, get to the end, and then be like "What the hell have I just read??", so perhaps this drop in score is more due to "Use it or lose it". Well, it's a thought that just occured to me anyway!

Methtical

IQ tests ARE a load of crap. They measure proficiency for a certain range of cognitive functions, that is all. The creator of the IQ tests knew they would be put to the incorrect use they have been and lamented it multiple times throughout his career. IQ is a score that correlates to educational proficiency.

I looked at the study and honestly, while I understand that they are the first group to actually study the scores from early childhood to post-marijuana use, there are still design flaws in the experiment. It's impossible to control for a host of other variables (education, life experiences, cognitive experiences) that could serve to alter IQ scores over time. Honestly a drop of x number of IQ points doesn't mean anything in relation to cannabis as cannabis use is not the only factor. I think, as with all of these causality studies, they might be surprised if they found out why the heavy users are using heavily (let's say it's for depression or boredom or whatever) and then test iq scores of people who reported feeling "happy and content" around age 12 and were depressed/bored/whatever around age 17 to 20. If there's a similar drop then what the test is showing is not that cannabis use causes IQ drop, but life situations "deteriorating" cause IQ to drop and an increased propensity for heavy cannabis use. As I said, there are just too many variables here to easily parse out cannabis use and claim that it is the cause of this drop in score.

I saw some BBC documentary where young mice that had been given cannabis while their brain was still developing couldn't navigate through a maze or something as well as mice that never had cannabis. Actually the difference was quite big.
That's why I never give or sell cannabis to people under 20. 18 might be fine but I go with 20.
Seriously

Soulfood, I agree with you on that hash is nice to smoke from time to time, compared to the super skunk strains that are out there these days. I am in love with good quality charas! I have been smoking since i was about 13, but only smoked everyday when i left home to go to art college at 17, which was a little over 9 years ago.

I spent my adolescent years in Italy and they only had really nice hash out there. When i moved to the UK, i smoked stupid amounts of cannabis everyday. I would sometimes wake up at 4 in the morning and couldn't go back to sleep unless i had a bong. This became a regular thing. I became in love with my bong. I stopped smoking everyday a long time ago and still love to have a spliff or bong with friends now and again. I don't like smoking and going out in public as it can make me slightly paranoid (specially when in the london underground at rush hour). I think i will all ways have a relationship with the plant, but i can only smoke it in moderation.

Hmmm cannabis. Out of all the chemicals and plants I have ever dabbled with, it is the only one that I would ever consider myself anything near addicted to. Not anymore, but in previous years. I'm stared smoking when I was 18. Cannabis, for me, was a 'gateway drug'. Before my first toke on a marijuana cigarette... I was staunchly anti drug. I barely drank, couldn't stand cigarettes. That all changed though…those first few times getting stoned with very close friends were exciting. And so followed experimentation with mushrooms, MDMA, LSD and beyond... So in some respects cannabis changed my life...without my finding it, would I have gone down this path at all? Maybe, maybe not, hard to say.

It can be a highly addictive, destructive drug. I have seen friends with troubled minds try and buffer this part of their minds by continually smoking lots of skunk. Its really sad to see. I'm so glad I didn't start smoking until I was older, I am adamantly against young people smoking it, or doing any drugs at all, while one's brain is still developing...you really are playing with fire.

I still like cannabis though. When I've had a full and busy day at uni, I can come back late and smoke a joint, and instantly my mind is chilled and stress evaporates. And I can get up the next morning without any hangover, and get back to work. Smoking cannabis during the day is for me, a big no no. You never recover all your mental faculties for the rest of the day.

I think its partly down to the strength of it...cannabis wasn't really meant to be as strong as it is now...and how they grow it, with all the fertilizers and stuff in it. I don't buy it these days, I grow my own organically so I know what's gone into it, and it makes a beautiful smoke.

And I'm a big fan of shelled hemp seeds, to eat.

Few things beat good weed (or good hash). Nothing compared to the weed/hash one can get off the streets or even hydroponically grow. Good weed to the "standard" strong skunk exactly what a great well balanced and flavoured beer from a local brewery is to the cheapest whiskey blend from the shelves of a supermarket.

Both weeds make you stoned just as both drinks make you drunk. But good weed you can smoke all day and feel great just as good beer you can drink all day and feel great. Shit skunk you smoke one joint and that's game over just as a pint of shit whiskey is game over.

SWIM stopped smoking weed because he started smoking dmt. Not because of any sort of enlightenment whatsoever. He just wanted a clear head to feel the "true" potential of the spice and he stuck to this decision thereafter. SWIM nowadays only smokes weed (or hash) only if it is of high quality (which is apparently not the strongest). He comes across such stuff once (or twice if he's lucky) per year and this is all he smokes.

...apart when he's on mushrooms, aya, acid, then oh, any weed is just amazing.

That's pretty much where I'm at.

I know so many people who are after weed that just straight up knocks them out, either by making them feel so heavy they can't move out mentally incapacitating themselves to the point where they seem to forget how. I'd call that poisoning myself. They call it good strong weed.

For me, good smoke means good flavour and the ability to carry on as normal with my social side enhanced rather than tied down.

That said though it seems the popular idea of a good time is when you wake up feeling shite afterwards. Such a shame.

There was an article in New Scientist recently about what might be the problem with modern skunk. The idea was that another chemical in weed (CHC or something???) balances the negative effects of the THC, being calming and relaxing etc. The modern stuff has been bred to increase the THC concentration, without increasing the amounts of this other chemical. Hence, increased anxiety, paranoia etc. Sorry, no reference, search their database if you have a subscription.

So, if you want to take weed, try an old school variety. And, maybe ingest it instead of smoking it. Smoking is bad for you.

Yes, I remember the study (attached below). It is not the greatest study but it was showing that CBD (cannabidiol) antagonises the effects of THC in the brain and that also predosing with CBD prior to THC reduces the side effects of THC.

Combination of THC and CBD in roughly 50/50 ratio in the oral spray Sativex (TM) are currently to-be-approved for distribution in the UK. Sativex with the addition of CBD is thought to be better and with much less side-effects compared to Marinol (TM) which is only THC based.

The "old school" variety is where the real shit is. This is what SWIM is privileged to get his hands onto the rare times he smokes.

You speak truth my friend.

Be well!

Hemp which is legal do not contain THC (at least very little) but do contain CBD.
Maybe one can grow hemp and extract the CBD?

Afghan and charas hashes are usually very high in CBD.
At worst it's some where in between but almost always gives you
a very clear and uplifting experience.

You know I think its great you all realized you weren't using cannabis responsibly or that it just wasn't working for you and were able to cut it out of your life... But you guys sit here and say stuff about why it doesn't work for YOU PERSONALLY, then you go on to act like anyone that smokes weed must also have the negative effects you have, and if they don't they are lying?

Not every abused weed like that, some people smoke quite successfully. I know quite a few people who smoke weed everyday who are immensely successful in life, I know some people who smoke weed every day who are immensely successful who would call all of us batshit crazy for smoking DMT often.

Not everyone is the same, not everyone has the same experiences with the same substances. Don't lecture people who smoke weed just because you guys had those bad effects, you know? I smoke weed every night after I am done with all my work for the day, and I find it great. It really helps me unwind and relax, get a good nights of sleep and be ready for the next day.

One of you goes on to say that the problem you have with weed smokers, is that it makes them antisocial because they don't want to go out and have social DRINKS with you? Your going to look down on them for smoking weed but not wanting to drink alcohol (which is much more toxic for you...), No offense, I see why theyd rather not go... maybe chill with some more like minded individuals

Did you ever think perhaps they just don't like drinking? I absolutely hate drinking even one sip and how it feels (except for some Sake maybe once a month with some japanese, its just too good), so it disgusts me when I go to a party and people act like I am crazy because I am the only one not drinking chilling on herbs all night.

No matter what you have experienced in this life, nothing you know is absolute. No matter how much knowledge you seek and aquire, in the end you will still know next to nothing, because that is just how life is. Everyone has different opinions, thoughts, experiences, etc etc. What works for you might not work for everyone, what doesn't work for you might work for quite a few people.

Im glad some more sensitive posts came later on, People that have the knowledge of the DMT molecule should be the first ones to know that different people will choose different plants to help them in their lives, and that what might be your ideal set of plant teachers might not be the same for the next man?

Why should we try to restrict anyone from anything? Just do what you like to do, and let other people do what they like to do, without condemning them. Isn't that how things should work?



P.S. Pot does NOT = Laziness

Thank you xenogears, a much needed post. Also, you don't need "old school" weed to get a good cbd ratio. All you need is proper genetics and a proper harvest time (get those trichomes at 50% cloudy 50% amber to get a properly aged smoke with no couchlock, hell harvest early and get it at 80% cloudy 20% clear for an anti-couchlock guarantee but immature product). I'm so sick of hearing skunk tossed around like it means something, although apparently does to you guys across the pond. In the US we guard our genetics real tightly (or rather the people with strains worth growing do) so you actually know what you are getting ratio-wise between cbd/thc etc. and can get a product that doesn't overwhelm or provide unwanted effects. Know your weed, the strains make a huge difference. I can smoke Strawberry Cough all day (if i were still doing that) with no adverse affects. If I try that with og kush or Trainwreck I'm unable to function at all. Genetics make all the difference.

Also, to add to this whiny rant, I agree with xenogears. I'm sick of potheads who smoke all day every day turning around and acting like weed is an evil plant once they take a little break from the herb. You guys clearly abused it and it's no longer working for oyu. I get it, I'm happy you're free from the shackles but let's be real. This is not something weed did to you, this is something you did to yourself. I've been there, smoking all day everyday. I've experienced the mental fog (my bad on that Ron, you were totally right on that, I hadn't stopped and thought about what you were saying) and other adverse effects. I stopped smoking at that point took a nice long break and then came back. Not because weed was evil, but because i needed to as a result of my usage patterns. We are all different and have our own experiences, but let's be real, the vast majority of you guys groaning about "weeklong afteraffects" (which i've never experienced since coming back or while smoking minimally/moderately) or the ills of weed are or were heavy users. Heavy use of anything causes issues, that's really all i'm getting at. I find it troubling that people seem to view weed as black and white, either all good or all bad, and their perceptions and presentations of this view swings completely with whether they're using or sober. It doesn't take a genius to see that there's some rationalization going on here to a certain level.

I love you guys and dont mean to whine or bitch, but weed is always the most controversial drug whenever it's brought up in forums or in public due to people's wildly shifting personal views. Sorry to let it out like that, this has been bothering me for a while and I feel it needed to be said.

peace
SB

Well thats actually twisting my words completely, I did not say "The problem I have with weed smokers is....", I said it bothers me that my friends don't want to be social because they would rather stay in and smoke weed, completely different meanings, since you seem to imply that I have a problem with all weed smokers, I don't, I couldn't give a shit what people whom I don't know do with their lives, but I do have an interest in those people I care about. The "social drink" aspect was an example pulled from the air, but I meant any kind of social activity, i.e involving leaving the house. And I have known these friends for 26 years, I'd say we are pretty like minded, the fact that I went round one of these friends houses the other night and before I got to his door he was coming out saying he was going to the off-licence to get some beers and maybe a bottle of wine for his partner, so I think it's safe to say he enjoys alcohol.

My point is don't think I go around making broad sweeping statements about people, I have not the time, energy nor the gaul to go around judging people I don't know, I am only speaking from my own experiences and conversations I have had with many people, thus I feel I have an informed opinion.

Anyway, the first part of your post I agree with, some people might get along fine and dandy, and good for them, honestly. However, again I will state from my own experience and what people have told me, when someone cannot function throughout the day without smoking weed, to the point that they are distracted from their work or whatever activity they are engaged in, and then deny that weed has anything to do with it, well I think that is not a positive state to be in, but again, I stress, what they do is up to them as long as it isn't hurting anyone else, and you'll have to forgive me for missing the presence of certain friends who;s company I value in more social settings because they would prefer to stay in and smoke weed like they do for the other 364 days of the year.

Methtical

To me, anything done in moderation is cool. I smoked strong weed every day and ended up feeling bad side-effects. But that can be said about pretty much anything. Eat McDonald's every day and you will get fat, get liver disease, and you can potentially die. Drink loads every day for a long time and it will hurt you in many different ways. I like what you said Xenogears. Peas to all

The vast majority of drug strains of cannabis do not contain significant levels of CBD. Usually its less then 1%. It requires at least a 1:1 ratio of CBD to have any effects on THC but really it just makes the weed sucky. There is no point in consuming CBD unless its being used for a medical condition (which is the reason there are some clinical trials going on with it).

I think people in the US claiming they have balanced THC and CBD ratios are wrong. 1 they have no way of analyzing their material and 2 those strains are very rare unless specifically bred to contain CBD which no one would actually do because its pointless it has no psychoactive effects. SWIMs smoked plants with only CBD (hemp strains) it was a total waste of time. The mechanism of action of CBD is still largely unknown as well although more is being learned about it all the time (because its useful for certain medical conditions).

However super high THC containing cannabis plants (like 20% THC) is more likely to cause negative side effects like making people paranoid, dysphoric, lethargic etc. SWIm prefers weaker cannabis as long as its got a nice taste and smokes well.

Cannabis is certainly not without negative effects although its far milder then most drugs out there and certainly one of SWIMs favorites

Your problem is you associate weed smoking with being unsocial... Just because you hang around some undesireable people that have those qualities does not mean that all people that smoke weed are antisocial.

So when you say you don't care what other people you don't know do with their lives just those close to you, you are implying that anyone that smokes weed has those effects, you just don't care about the ones you don't know.

This is not true at all, once again, different substances can have different effects and uses for everybody.

Im sorry about your friend though, he really does seem like he is using it to cope with OTHER issues he is probably having. Which in that case I wouldn't blame it on the weed, it is whatever problem is causing him to use it like that.

In his case, if he didn't have weed around, he would be using something else to contain his troubles and be content staying in 365 days a year.

So weed is not really even the problem..

And if you cant handle not smoking weed all day every day when you got important stuff to do, then yeah... maybe you shouldn't be smoking?

I never smoke weed alone so... I always think of it as a social activity.

I agree very mild negative effects its a pet peave of mine when people overstate them.

I used to be a heroin junky and can now happily say that is all behind me and in the past, so when people say marijuana gives them physical withdrawels because they are a little moody for a couple days and maybe have more trouble falling asleep I can't help but chuckle and say that shit is a walk in the park compared to what I used to go through every morning from not having dope for 4 hours....

SWIM has stopped buying cannabis lately but she hasn't found the strength to refuse her kindly friends' frequent gifts
A strange problem, SWIM admits, but a problem that SWIM feels to be insurmountable at the moment
This thread is inspiring to SWIM, however; thanks to every one for sharing their stories