Um.. strassman's idea was that dmt is a neurotransmitter. The pineal produces neurotransmitters, hence part of why he suggests that's where DMT is made. The neurotransmitters that are involved with dreaming are produced by the pineal. It's not unlikely that DMT is involved. The pineal/dream/neurotransmitter idea is one theory. They are not separate.

^^i mean that dmt doesn't seem like its produced by the pineal gland. the enzymes aren't there.

i should also clarify there was some speculation that dmt was more of a hormone like substance but that doesn't seem to be the case.

also there are neurotransmitters like acetylcholine that are more involved in dreaming.

theres no evidence dmt is as far as i know?

Benzyme always has a very articulate way of saying the spice has nothing to do with dreams, I wish he was around, because I forget the details!

I'm not attempting to argue that it is. Just pointing out that that is what strassman's theory is; that dmt is a neurotransmitter produced in the pineal and he's speculated it's involved with dreaming. To say that the pineal/dream theory is fading away beacuse scientists now think dmt is a neurotransmitter doesn't make any sense.

your right i wasn't clear. what i meant is that strassman's idea that dmt is produced by the pineal gland is probably wrong and his idea that its involved in dreaming is also probably wrong. we discussed this a long time ago i think benzyme brought it up.

so yes the pineal dream theory is fading away but not for the reason i said originally my mistake.

One arguement against the DMT/Dreaming thing. After using DMT I can't sleep very well at all. Even if it's a very low dose that barely arouses me mentally. I think if DMT caused dreaming I'd only be dreaming awake.

word. that's much more clear. thanks burnt

The general-public surely "needs an update" ... or just a fully loaded bong ... !

But I have heard that we're just about to get one - a public update !

The DMT Spirit Molecule documentary is soon to be released ! (May 2010... and someone mentioned that it was offered to the Cannes Film Festival coming up).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E62nkpcWNo4

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"It's on its way to Cannes right now, to enter their competition. 9 of 150 get into the competition, so we're keeping our fingers crossed. We should hear within a month." -RS

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reguardless I have had many endogenous experiences, always around 3am that would support his theory of some sort of visionary tryptamines being released..i know other people here have reported suddenly waking up into this same ayahuasca-like state as well..its not as profound as taking an exogenous tryptamine though..if i switch on the lights and get up it all ends..

That doesnt mean its DMT though..5meo seems more likey, and pinoline...prob others..

Also these aren't dreams..dreams arent like that for me..I am awake for it..

Is this the same dude who is in with UFC? Haha i've heard his DMT radio talks, the dude cracks me up.

I'm fairly glad to see that I'm not the only one who has mixed emotions about Joe Rogan.

On one hand I am quite glad that someone who is actually known (out side the psychedelic/pharmacology world) is speaking up about the potential benefits from responsible use. If you walked down the street and asked a couple dozen people at random who is Alexander "Sasha" Shulgin, who is Terence McKenna, or who is Rick Strassman... you'll most likely get blank stare's or a giggle at best followed by a brushed off "I don't know"... Now ask them if they know Joe.... and if your in the US I'll bet 80% know who he is.
So some exposure that stem's from another source (other than "Us" drug crazed hippy wanna-be's) is great, and having that endorsement from someone who IS part of the social, media mainstream is even more convincing....

On the other hand......
I do feel that his verbiage seems to trivialize the experience and it's benefits. I think he, him self may have a healthy respect for the experience(s) he has/had... however due to his nature in the business and his disposition/persona in the media he has to make it sound "fun"/"cool" or something off Fear Factor, which undermines what we are trying to do as a responsible explorer.

Still... I do like having a public spokesperson who already has a report with the world. I remember when Montel Williams came out and endorsed Marijuana. Now if only Joe could take the same sincere approach.

He is who he is. There's no doubt about that. He speaks about it the way I'd expect him to speak about it.

You guys expecting him to talk like he's Terence McKenna or someone else like that, just stop. He's not him or anyone else. He's who he is. That's his style. Deal with it.

I’m tired of this psychedelic elitism. As if he’s not good enough to talk about DMT because he doesn’t have a Ph.D in psychology or something. This kind of elitism makes me sick. Any person can appreciate the effects of DMT. You don’t need to be Timothy Leary to appreciate DMT.

^^I'm starting to think you are him, 69ron. Wouldn't that be the cosmic joke of all time! Hehe

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Agreed, 69ron, I just wish he'd speak the facts, that's all.

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House, Doesn't it seem more important to get the message out rather than particular facts (which can be easily researched if one has interest)? While I'm not a fan of his style, I think he's trying to illustrate a complex -- impossible to most -- concept using terms people are familiar with. He's doing stand-up...

Whether it's produced in the lungs or pineal or wherever isn't nearly as important as the fact that that it is produced and the implications thereof.

The exact area of production wouldn't be good material for a joke -- just the results of using.

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I see your point, but I'm just weird about truth...
;]

To re-iterate, my only issue with Rogan is the regurgitation of the Strassman slop, which deepens the vapid, pop culture, void and strengthens the myths as fact. I'm telling you, I can't count how many times I've heard random people (who know nothing of psychedelics) bring it up in conversation and it's always paired with the death BS. Don't even get me started on McKenna. I don't believe an update is possible. There's no going back (the Spirit Molecule movie will only make it worse). The general consciousness in 'straight' society regarding DMT has been permanently shaped by these charlatans. I have a long time friend with a neurology PHD who's primary area of research is psychedelics and she stressed to me years ago that that community does not hold Strassman in any sort of high regard. Pairing detailed medical research findings with wild personal postulations in one book was wildly irresponsible and we're living with the reverberations of that. This is the prison, within which DMT must live now. *sigh*

Ok, rant over. Sorry guys. I get really worked up over Strassman/McKenna gobbledygook and pop culture figures that vomit it all over the indiscriminate consciousness of the masses.

I dunno, I'm just as full of BS though. Hopefully someone can at least get a laugh out of anything I write. I don't take myself as serious as it probably sounds. That book just pisses me off. Again, sorry.

It's just so unfortunate that the lowest common denominator out there believes, without question, what someone like Joe Rogan regurgitates from what he barely comprehends from someone like Rick Strassman who barely comprehends what he's dealing with. It boggles my mind.

People need to look up Nick Sand for a respectable perspective on DMT. His articles are unfortunately difficult to come by but I first read them in a reposting by a member at the entheogen forums many years ago (I'm linking to the post here for informational purposes as I believe his writings are very much in tune with the mindset of the members here. MODs appologies if it's a faux pas to link to other forums):

http://www.entheogen.com.../showthread.php?t=14166

One quote that particularly chimes with me regarding Strassman:
"The administration of DMT in these highly artificial and agenda-driven environments may very well create a warped impression of assumed importance and reality that does not allow DMT to function as it should. Let Strassman take his subjects into the forest or a temple, and turn on with them after he has mastered it himself, and I think he will find that the little alien doctors will disappear and be replaced by other mystic beings—beings that can tell you about yourself. Or you can go to a completely non representative space of the rare “level three” state, where there is no light, no design, just the voice of God using your soul as a silent tuning fork. Alas, this is unlikely to happen, as Strassman would probably lose his job or grant, might very well be prosecuted and jailed, and worst of all, like Leary and Alpert, lose his scientific “objectivity” (another great myth)."

For those that don't know, Nick Sand is credited as the first person who discovered the effects of smoking free base dmt (not to mention creating orange sunshine LSD).

And Ron, good, balanced points (as always). I totally agree that no one should hold psychedelic elitism as some ego power trip and anyone can talk about DMT however they want. But only when talking about their experience. When someone in the public eye spreads mis-truths about what DMT is, that's where I take issue, and that's my only problem with Rogan. I think he's hilarious for the most part and would probably be a great guy to hang with.

**EDIT: not that I believe you're him and I'm trying to suck up to you or anything, haha.
**EDIT 2: if anything, if you were a figure of some note in hiding, I'd say you were Nick Sand.

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Freethinker, He is not actually regurgitating Strassman's work -- not in the least. Strassman has NEVER made the claim that DMT is produced in the pineal. He only hypothesizes (wrongly as he now admits) that the pineal is a POSSIBLE location of DMT production. If you read his recent work, he's says the whole pineal thing has done nothing other than "bite him in the butt."

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