Sick all those papers used was paper chromatography! Separating bufotenine n oxide is simple! According to one of these papers SWIM looked at bufotenin n oxide can be reduce to bufotenine with zinc and turned into n oxide with peroxide! I don't know how I didn't find this before but it changes my whole outlook on these seeds from a chemical point of view only.

i also performed a zink reduction on the black salt that forms - somehow - and it reduced the dark solution to clear - no color.
It must have worked - il have to repeat the experiement and take some pix.

It seems there are quite a number of components in bufo seeds - things change and form spontaneously or over time - there are black water soluble salts that can be formed - that over time become water insoluble - all sorts of strange things happening (is it at all possible that it can act like mesc and pull co2 from the air when sitting as a freebase to form bufo carbonate ?) - im having a bit of a hard time getting this one completely down.

on experience with it - there seems to be some kinda breakthru window for me.
its smoked over a period of time - then after a few mins i feel something almost like a dmt surge come - things get very very intense feeling.
if i go with it i pop out the other side - if not - i just get some visuals - like when comming up.

has SWIY compared un reduced material with reduced material?

My gut feeling is that bufotenine is INACTIVE. But a byproduct of it is highly active. And that byproduct varies from person to person in its quantity so that some people can smoke bufotenine and the conversion doesn’t work well, while others can smoke a small amount, and get a really good conversion in their body/brain which causes the psychedelic effects.

I say that because the trip changes. It starts out not being psychoactive, then changes into a unique psychoactive in a few minutes, and then towards the end of the trip, it’s like psilocin somewhat. You can feel it change within your body/mind. I think it’s actually coming apart and forming something else that’s active. And in some people, they lack the proper compounds to make the conversion take place.

Many say bufotenine is too polar to cross the blood brain barrier. Maybe this is a fact. Maybe only a metabolite of it does. Anyway, it feels to SWIM like it is morphing into another compound right in his body. This is unique to bufotenine. SWIM doesn't know of any other psychedelic that does this.

i must say i noticed the exact same thing - 2 distinctly different peaks.

well I must say im skeptic that one can judge so easily from subjective experiences that a compound is turning into a metabolite, as it can be a billion things involved... but in any case, I think it was infundibulum that posted some days ago that bufotenine turns into 5-meo in the body? gotta try to find the post again or maybe he reads this...

No it was the opposite, 5-meo being metabolised into bufotenine.

But re to this issue, it is too far fetched to bring a theory of another metabolite. Bufotenine may as well have very interesting pharmacokinetics (how it absorbs, where and when it sequesters, how and when it is cleared from its sequestered places etc). The first effect are peripheral so it most likely acts on the periphery, then it is slowly absorbed through the blood brain barrier in the brain.

SWIM gets the periphery effects (prickling, tension, etc), then some OEVs, some CEVs and end of the story. The OEVs are reminiscent of a very low dose mushrooms, and the CEVs are dull coloured but fast and in-your-face visuals of snakey? ropey? celtic knot? designs that are bette rseen in total darkness. The whole experience ends within 15 min.

How does SWIM's experience compare with others?

i know this is on the edge of what is allowed to be discussed - but - because bufo has a hard time crossing the blood brain barrier - would acetalating it not help ?
do u get acetalated bufo ?

Acetylation would probably help as it does help many other molecules to cross the BBB, like salicylic acid->acetylsalicylic acid, morphine ->(di)acetylmorphine, psilocin ->acetoxypsilocin etc.

On how to prepare acetoxybufotenine, things are obscure. The SWIM 69ron refers to tried a conversion with vinegar some time ago and it was inconclusive.

edit: here's the thread

someone will try that again and take some pix if its successfull - first change is that its gona be left for a lot longer in the vinegar.

ok thanks for clearing that up

but yeah take for example acid.. its highest concentration in the brain is only at minute 10 or so.. later it leaves the brain and is found spread in other organs of the body, and yet we have this amazing experience that last hours, as if its all the time there in our synapses.. So the effects can come not only from the direct effect of a substance in the brain, but these substances can just kick-start a cascade of other processes that are responsible for the effects.. So if one feels different phases in a trip, this is a very poor subjective indicator that there are active metabolites, it may be a number of things ( this is not to say there absolutely is no active bufo metabolite, one can only know by scientific testing, but I just want to bring some critical thinking here regarding subjective experiences.. )


and back to bufo, I havent had much luck having effects from bufotenin extracted in the toast-base-ipa way.. Maybe my batch was bunk but it was maya stuff and others using same seeds seem to have success... I tried smoking in a joint, smoking in a bong, but it just tastes weird and gives me some light heady feelings and thats all... I tried holding in the smoke for long, smoking at once, smoking spread over half an hour, nothing works. Since I havent been smoking anything lately, only vaporizing, the fact that I have to inhale smoke with bufo also bothers me. I might try again with some different batch of seeds one day but for now I dont really feel interested in it

SWIM has tried seeds from numerous sources. He always thought it is other stuff in the seeds that stop him from getting the reported by others amazing bufo effects, maybe impure extracts, maybe not potent seeds and whatnot. It took him quite some time (and the experience from one of SWIM's friends who got amazed from bioassaying SWIM's bufo extract) to realise that there is such a great individual variation to bufo effects.

I believe that the different reaction of people to bufotenine is a very fascinating issue. What makes some to get amazing effects while others don't get any? I don't blame smoking techniques because most of the people here know (or report of others knowing) how to vaporise and know how to hold the smoke and know how to play with different smoking methods... If one gets uninteresting effects it is unlikely that it is down to incorrect technique just as it is unlikely that it is impure bufo (see the IPA bufo tek; a crude extract).

SWIM also believes that bufotenine extraction teks should come with a notice stating that the bufo effects (whether pure or impure) vary alot among individuals and the end product may not act as advertised.

This talk about LSD...well no one knows how LSD works to this day. That is a fact. It’s been studied for a long time and it’s still pretty much a mystery. It might be a metabolite of LSD that’s active. No one knows. And don’t tell me that it’s proven it’s not a metabolite. I researched that already. It’s not proven. No one knows all the metabolites created by LSD. They only know which ones are secreted in urine tests. No one tested brain tissue for metabolites of LSD.

Bufotenine should NOT work at all according to our current understanding of how drugs enter the brain because it’s supposedly not able to cross the blood brain barrier.

The fact that SWIM gets the most amazing visual effects from bufotenine, while others get nothing to write home about, is a complete mystery. No one knows why this is the case. No one.

SWIM’s experience says the molecule is morphing into something else that is active. This to SWIM is obvious. He can feel its effects changing as the trip progresses. This is not proof of course, but seems obvious to SWIM. SWIM cannot analyze it to be 100% sure, but one should be able to do this with the right equipment at hand.

You're right; it is just too sad others like SWIM cannot witness the bufo effects so that they can see for themselves the change SWI69ron is talikng about,

The squiggly lines and other uninteresting visuals are the first phase of visual effects only. The next stage is where all the magic is. It seems like some people can’t get past the first stage of visuals or even get to that. That indicates to me that a change is required to get to the next phase of effects. Whatever the change is, it’s very clearly a change in effects. This change is unlike any other SWIM has ever experienced from any other drug. PERIOD. It’s a drastic change. The entire nature of the visual effects changes. To me, that indicates either bufotenine is itself changing in the body, or is setting off a chain reaction that’s responsible for the eventual effects only a portion of people seem to experience.

A chain reaction, a change in the molecule, whatever it is, it is a definite change in both bodily and visual effects.

Most people who get the amazing effects notice that there are at least a few different very distinct effects you get from bufotenine as the experience progresses. It starts with bodily effects only. Lots of tingling, almost prickling. Then you get very uninteresting squiggly line type of visuals that are almost like 5-MeO-DMT visuals. Then you get intense visuals of objects, places, etc. that rival DMT, that are dream-like. Then after that the visuals change yet again and become similar to psilocin visuals. For SWIM the visual effects have 3 very distinct phases to them. No other psychedelic is like that. In all, SWIM actually notices 4 phases of effects as the trip progresses: 1 - body only; 2 - 5-MeO-DMT style squiggly line visuals; 3 – amazing dream-like visuals; 4 – psilocin-like visuals.

It's like no other psychedelic SWIM ever tried.

Hm....

Very interesting description. Do the events of bufotenine 69ron reports match other people's experiences?

From the description it does sound like 3 substances in one, SWIM would have never imagined this and he's also amazed that these descriptions did not surface earlier on! SWIM has read quite a few bufo reports over the net but they were never as detailed in their qualitative description.

yep..those squiggly little lines are NOTHING..

Once you get into the real bufotenine visions its totally different..Im not talkign about nice paterns and colors..I mean flying though(literally,flying) fully complete alien and ancient looking cities in full 3d, fully detailed beings trying to interact with you, complex machines, portals you go through,spaceships etc..and finally last night in silent darkness I got full on auditoy hallucinations that went along with the visions..very facinating.

ANd to me its become very clear that there is actaully 3 stages..there is stage after this main peak where the visuals change again into a more aquatic sort of rounded texture, and redosing at this point can bring about another very strong peak with a slightly diff character from the 1st peak.

I've managed to get another 150mg's of pure bufo, so I'm going to give this another solid go in a couple of days, throat be damned. I think I'll do it exactly the same but roll a smaller joint this time, but make the mix 2x as potent with bufotenine.

Fractal - How do you find this stuff to smoke? I find it really difficult to inhale a substantial amount at any one time and have to dose really slowly. So I was wondering if you're made out of stone or something?

Again very interesting.

Do people who have experienced the full effects have also experienced the "squiggly little lines" in bufo underdosing? Or, in other words up which point a bufo underdosing can bring someone?

Could these initial effects be the indication that a proper dose has been taken and once someone reaches the point of the squiggly little lines knows that the rest of the trip will shortly ensue?