So i decided to brew my first real caapi drink. 20g of white caapi was boiled three times over the course of 2 hours.

+30 Minutes: Definatly familiar, light change in body feel, nothing dramatic.
+50: Getting incredibly dizzy. Eyes can't focus on anything without getting even more sea sick.
+1:10: Puking in different locations: Also wandering around the house so i can puke more
+1:30 Trying to sleep on the couch in hope this would go away then. While I was drifting away, a voice talked to me telepathically. She told me about puking and that it was a good idea to try her alone first. She'd sing some words for me which made no sense first, but then i realized she wanted to be asked the question i asked the salvia beeings "Who are you"
"Water" she answered.

At this point im having quite some aural visons of songs sounding like bluetech songs. With each answer i feel jolts throiugh my body.. "I pull the strings!" the voice said. "Im Big Sister".

+3h I'm awake now, still feelin incredibly sick, dizzy, nauseous. I can barely type this message and need to make a pause here and there- I feel like an old man must feel all the time. It's horrible.

That sounds about like the first time I experienced Ayahuasca. I sincerely believe what you feel are negative energies being evicted from your body. Ayahuasca is really an incredibly healing plant, and it will heal whatever is necessary. If the trouble is in your physical body, you will feel physical pain. Even in my second Ayahuasca session the feeling was not as bad. Still apparent, but not as intense. The third one had some traces of it. On the fourth, I was truly blessed. "Short term pain for a long term gain."

Hang in there bro, ride it out.

It should pass soon.

Sending thoughts of well being your way.

Edit oh man, didn't realize this post was just posted now, hang in and get some sleep before trying to figure out what went wrong, SWIM thinks.


SWIM also recently had his first caapi experiment. 50g was extracted with 2000 ml of hot tap water, filtered through a coffee filter,
it was mild (SWIM is generally a hardhead) but the whole brew was peaceful and interesting.

SWIM pointed that out just to note that non-boiled extraction can reduce nausea.

It seems that it could have been a combination of 2 things:

1: You're tolerance to caapi is pretty low, it can be very side-effecty (besides just nausea) at high doses
2: Diet. SWIM has had bad reaction eating things not on the "not with MAOI lists" and the feeling can make the best trips TERRIBLE.

SWIM thinks that trying 15g of hot-water non-boiled brew, through (several) coffee filters. FASTING for 6-8 hours before (taking in the morning can help)
Would produce much better effects.

Just SWIM's thoughts, Good luck!

Its not always like that..I have had an experience like that at 10 grams caapi only once..

Now I drink 25-35 grams of strong ceilo with mimosa every week and i have yet to get sick with those brews..

Ayahuasca just seems to give what you need..if its sickness just roll with it..

I wouldt reccomend against cold or warm water unreduced brews..the more liquid the sicker you feel..i like to reduce mine down alot.

Interesting...I usually reduce my full ayahuasca brews (many times too quickly) and, except for the several times i reduced slowly, find that making it past the 30 minute mark and to the hour mark is quite hard without purging.

However, for the SHE I used THP and 14L cold water + a little vinegar for 35g vine. I then simmered it down all day, making sure to never reach a boil. I had to push my launch time back to West Coast time (I live on the East coast) and even with that adjustment, did not have time to reduce the brew without jacking up the temperature. Since I wanted to test the effects of not caramelizing my brew, I wound up drinking 3 liters of caapi tea, which had a viscosity very close to water.

The taste was fine, I added a little agave nectar and it was like gulping down three liters of hot tea. I had to piss multiple times during the SHE, but had zero nausea or stomach discomfort and and all of the typical caapi vibrations and effects. The urination wasn't a big deal either, as i was smoking dmt/cannabis/mapacho joints, so I would take a dip in the hyperspatial pool, come back to my Earthen shore, relieve myself, and return. This cycle went on for a good two hours with Mama Aya's presence felt the whole time. I went to sleep shortly after and woke up feeling quite refreshed, but not as good as following a full ayahuasca brew.

I think if I'd continued to reduce at that rate, it would have been possible to get a cup of tea (8 oz) that was only marginally thicker than water and quite tolerable. Although, personally, I don't have any taste issues with even the thick brews, I find them to be weird, but not foul. It's interesting, the aftertaste evokes analogies of the brew as the plants' blood, its almost the vegetable version of the iron/metallic taste of my own blood.

Thank you all for your support!
I really hope these were negative energys leaving me. I still feel sick, but it's a bit better now. Its good to hear that it's not like that everytime you drink. I'm not sure how soon i want to do it again. Next time with 10g max. It seems like im very sensitive to harmala alkaloids. 10mg rue extract is enough for sublingual use and spice potentiation. I had planned to use the caapi as a launching platform, but it seems that she doesn't like to get used. its a great loss, because i was determined to reacnh hyperspace and i had time and a good setting... but ayahuasca decided against it. Now i just hope it goes away overnight...going into the 8th hour now...

Some thngs i want to say:

- The voice i communicated with was very faint. I now understqnd how the spice must act...caapi is the record and spice the record player. Have you ever played a vinyl record without turning the amplification on? You can hear it ...but it'S very quiet.

Welll i forgot the second point...it'sbeen a day.

T%hanks again for your love!

I just had my first caapi only experience yesterday. I boiled 112 grams three times for several hours each time. I ended up with 1200 ml. I drank 150 ml (about 16 grams) a few days ago to try it out, with no real effect.
I drank another 150 ml yesterday and consumed the sediment from the bottom of the jar (I had a 900 ml jar, and a 300 ml jar. both had some really fine sediment) and WOW! what a difference.

I was trying to cook dinner for the 10 people my wife had invited over for dinner which is usually a fun and easy task for me. I started to feel very odd about an hour after I finished my tea. I was a little dizzy and my hands were kinda shaky. I also had some strange body feelings. If I stood still my feet and lower legs felt very odd; almost tingly. I was also having very minor auditory halucinations. I was listening to OTT and there were some new sounds that had never been there before.

I felt a little nauseous, but not too bad. It would have been completely pleasant (except for the little bit of nausea) if I wasn't trying to cook for and entertain a bunch of people I didn't really know. After about three hours I was pretty much back to baseline.
Anyway, it took me completely by surprise, as I had just had the same amount of the same batch of brew a few days before.

I guess I learned to be respectful of the sediment!

Pokey the Chastened

...and i filtered out the sediment and used a batch maya was later giving away for free because there were complaints about the strength. Can't imagine what 100g would have done to me...endless horror. 1-2g brews have been more pleasurable for me.

oh and i remember now what i wanted to say:

I guess i would have prefered to be more sick so i could puke more easily. it was a fight for every drop of it sometimes. But it helped me lose my fear of puking a bit. I also guess that strong psychedelic experience would have been a good thing accompanying the sickness---so the pain would gain more sense.

oh and thsanks dagger...will try again with less caapi!

Dont be afraid of it..ayahuasca will never really hurt you..I bet you'll be up to 30 grams in no time..
I dont know how 10 grams effected me so much that one time..but I had visions where i was taught things by strange beigns along with the sickness..but now i can handle much more without nausea and still have deep experiences..the more caapi..the more spirit I find..even when getting effects at 10 grams..i still prefer at least 25 grams now.

I guess part of it was a demonstration of power. This is a mistake i make everytime: I underestimate. I don't know how you can underestimate a plant used for thousands of years in shamanic practive...but well!

I was so foolish to guestimate the amount of caapi. So it was more or less 20g...maybe more.
The lessons was to respect it more. It's not just some plant to make dmt orally active. It's powerful and can make you sick.

Promising to hear that this is common for someone who started to work withh the plant. Next time, i'll work my way up and won't skip steps. It's to easy to fall this way.

Congratulations!

It took SWIM 8 brews until finally Aya came to her.

Only for SWIM it was puking, shitting and pouring cold sweat in rivers all simultaneously.

Also there was a feeling of being lucky to take the vine alone.

It took SWIM about a dozen more ceremonies to learn how do deal with nausea.

Now SWIM always feels how the vine works inside her body and then in about 2 hours when the work is done aya leaves the body with all the nasty stuff. What a relief! Next day SWIM always feels as if she had been thoroughly cleaned and washed from inside. Now la purga for SWIM is an important part of the journey.

There also is a feeling that Aya is a stern but kind teacher. Hope you will feel the same.

Peace, brother.

Everybody does at some point or the other.

Yeah, It is a huge power. SWIM got that feeling when she saw with her eyes open how the vine grows through her hands, feet, the body. Very scary!

Later she allowed SWIM to inspect every nook and cranny of her body and mind. Unforgettable feeling, unfortunately never repeated again.



You never know how much it takes for the first time. SWIM had to gradually increase the dose from 50 g to staggering 600 g. Well, later she came back to more reasonable 200 - 250 g for Caapi alone experience. With 20 g being active for you, you are lucky.



Being sick is part of the experience, of clensing. At least for SWIM.

That’s caapi for you. Rue can be just as bad, some say worse.

It’s all about dosage. Caapi will make you feel seriously sick if the dose is high enough. THH and harmine, even in pure form will make you feel sea sick if you take enough. That's a common side effect of large doses.

My advice: lower the dosage by 1/2 or more.

That's true. Still SWIM should say that after each of her 20-something Caapi-only journeys she felt absolutely great - fresh and full of energy. No feeling of poisoning whatsoever with the average dose around 200 g.

Terence Mckenna once talked about poor Madagaskar shamans that do not have any psychadelic plants growing around, so they take some poisonous plants but only in the amount that gets them to the point of dying. The euphoria of returning back to life is as great as that from taking a psychadelic.

Caapi varies a lot in potency. Some is so weak you need a ton for even the slightest effect, some is really strong. It also varies a lot in alkaloid ratios. Some actually contains substantial amounts of harmaline, enough to feel it, but most doesn’t. Some is high in THH, but most is high in harmine. So don’t expect the same effect or strength every time.

Also individual reactions to caapi vary a lot. Some people need a ton of the SAME batch another person will be floored by if using a small amount. If you notice in other threads, no one can agree on the proper dosage of harmine, harmaline, or THH. Also, no one can agree on which one is best. Some people love THH, others love harmaline. And yes, some people do prefer rue over caapi. On this forum, I think most prefer caapi.

caapi must be safer becasue it has very little harmaline..I have heard that harmaline is neurotoxic..THH and harmine or not..anyone else know if that it true?

Of course there are other things in rue as well to avoid..

You can go higher and higher with caapi and just have nausea not real neurotoxicicity..not the same with rue.

I don't know about any serious toxicity studies being done on caapi. More have been done on rue. I think not enough studies exist on either to really draw any conclusion that one is more toxic than the other. There are almost no studies on THH.

For SWIM caapi feels much more toxic than rue on the body (way more nauseating), but rue is more mentally stoning.

Harmaline was never shown to be neurotoxic in man, if I recall correctly.

Phlux was the one that first told me that harmaline was neurotoxic..so I really have no clue myself..

I have taken both rue and caapi..caapi has never made me feel toxic symptoms at all..when i drank rue however I had a frickin horrible experience where I couldnt breath and felt all cramped up like I was going to die and had to get into a hot shower and stay there just to calmdown..after that i decided to stick with caapi lol..

Caapi has helped me with some health problems I had so for me it's a valuable medicine..

Look here: "Protective effect of harmalol and harmaline on MPTP neurotoxicity in the mouse and dopamine-induced damage of brain mitochondria and PC12 cells"

http://grande.nal.usda.g...ences&therow=352605

So, harmaline has some protective effects on the brain. I don't think all is known about it yet.