I am a male about 135lbs, 22 years of age. I am sitting alone in one of the bedrooms of a friend's apartment. There are white walls. It is rather clean for a bachelor's apartment. A computer desk is behind me. I load 120mg/g salvia extract into a bowl. It was just a pinch, less that 20mg of extract in a glass bowl. I am staring at the wall and my friend's bed. I lean back in a computer chair and take at least 1 hit, I don't remember taking a second or third hit, but I may have. It is during the middle of the day. The sun is shining in through the window with white blinds, making the room kinda bright, but no artificial lights are on. No music is playing. Nothing decorates the walls. The window is to my left, and the door and a hall are to my right. The door was left open.

After taking the hit. The image in front of me froze still. I froze still in the image that I saw. Not quite an out-of-body experience, but my body was frozen still. In the corner of my eye to the right I "saw" a realtor showing this "image" that I was frozen in to a newly-wed couple. I couldn't move my head, but I was visualizing them in my peripheral vision. The realtor was a well-dressed dark-haired woman. The cute, young couple very quickly decided that they were satisfied, and the realtor started to roll-up the "image" with me trapped in it. Panic ensued, and I tried to escape. I wasn't to be sold with this "image." I had to get out. I got out of my seat and went down the hall.

I found myself down the hall with my jacket off. I still had one hand in my jacket. The bowl and lighter was keeping me from getting the jacket off from around one of my wrists. I was "trapped" in the jacket, like a kid with his hand stuck in a cookie jar because he wouldn't let go of the cookie. I actually was walking down the hallway spiraling. At the end of the hallway, I heard voices coming from a stairwell. It took me a few seconds to realize where I was, what had happened, and that I did, indeed, know the people down the stairs. That I had smoked some salvia, had a psychedelic experience, and at one point completely freaked. It's strange and kinda scary, when a hallucinogen takes total control and you forget that you even took a drug. Shows you what you are really made of, shakes you to the core.

I'm glad I didn't hurt myself. It was stupid of me to not have a sitter. But, I learned so much about myself from that experience. I experienced terror, true terror.

SWIM has seen this place before too. Thank you for sharing your experience.

Yes it can be horrifying when salvia reduces you to an object!

People on Erowid have been run over by vehicles after wandering into the street on salvia, one tried to jump off a balcony and was barely held down by her boyfriend sitter because she was fighting so had to do so, another stabbed someone with a birthday cake knife after being deliberately abandoned by a vengeful sitter. That is why when dreamer experimented, he did it on his own bed with his left ankle tied to one bedpost and his right wrist tied to the diagonally opposite one. When he had gone deep, he could see that there were red marks that showed his body had been trying to move itself somewhere. Before smoking I honestly recommend securing yourself as if you were a madman in a padded cell, in case your body goes walkabout. Unless people do this, it pains me to say that I believe it is only a matter of time before there is a death reported. Stay responsible, stay safe.

It's funny, my first two salvia breakthroughs were solo, but now I NEVER smoke the stuff without a sitter.

And yeah, being rolled up is honestly a normal thing. Happened on my first breakthrough, except I was able to look at the rolled up reality from an outward perspective and I wasn't a part of it for the time being.

Glad you're ok.

It's very common for me to "feel," yes actually feel a spinning force or vortex, often forming a long tube or "wall." You put your hand in the "tube" or "wall" of energy and you can feel the energy. If you go with it, the energy will turn your hand to "go with the flow." It actually pushes you. Though, I have felt a pull before, like lifting my arms upward, or pulling me towards a line or wall of energy.

This was a different feeling entirely, but very similar. When I realized I had taken the salvia, (I want to say "when I regained consciousness," but I was indeed conscious during the whole event) I found my self spinning down the hall. Rather gracefully I might add, not drunkenly.

That twisting, spinning effect is a real turn off for SWIM. He can’t stand it. He doesn’t get it if salvia is taken as a quid though. The quid method is so different from smoking it. It’s much more pleasant.

Can salvia extract be used in a quid fashion? If not, what about the leaves cause them to be more active sublingually?

that twisting spinning effect means that you havent taken enough to breakthrough if you are there enough to be bothered by it..its only a lower dose phase that you pass through..once you break through you are in another place all together. Anyone interested in salvia should shoot for that at least 1 time..it will change the way you look at salvia thats for sure.

Couldn’t agree more. The twisting/morphing of space (including self) is how you get to “the other side”. It’s the transport mechanism. You'll also often feel it when returning.

Concerning being an object, I’ve always enjoyed being transformed into inanimate objects. It’s an unusual and unique experience.

narmz: I’m not into quidding, but everything I’ve read claims that extracts aren’t very effective for quidding. Maybe it has to do with surface area or something. (Too little surface area for the amount of salvinorin A present.)

SWIM thinks its one of the worst possible drug sensations he’s ever felt. He prefers puking hour on end to that spinning/twirling/twisting effect of smoked salvia. It’s an awful effect. I can’t imagine people accepting that. Nothing could be worth experiencing that awful effect.

It’s more of a turn off than puking your guts out. It’s unpleasant and disorienting. SWIM will never smoke salvia again because of it. I don’t care what’s on “the other side”. Having to experience that twisting effect for 1 second is not worth it.

SWIM likes quidding it only. No god awful twisting is felt when you quid it. It’s just awful. It’s easily the worst drug effect SWIM ever felt. I can think of no drug effect SWIM hates more than that twisting effect. Itching is better, nausea is better, body tension is better, pretty much every side effect SWIM ever felt is better than that awful twisting effect. Yuck.

OK, OK! I get it. You don’t like the twisting.

I guess we each respond differently to different physical sensations (and it’s definitely physical). I find the body-morphing to be a fascinating sensation. Once, I was stretched and pulled like taffy – stretched, pulled, folded, flattened, etc. It was amazing.

Oh man, the memories SWIM has of that sensation are coming back...it's the freakiest sensation there is.

Everyone is different and like they say, “one man’s trash is another man’s treasure”.

Ron how would you describe the quid effects? I dont like smoked salvia either, it really left me in a weird head space for a long time after.

Ooops. I posted in the wrong thread

Sorry about that. I removed the post.

When taken as a quid it’s almost completely different. These are the differences SWIM feels:

Smoked:
* Quick onset
* Lots of unpleasant twisting, twirling and rolling sensations
* Very decent visual and auditory hallucinations
* Lots of mental disorientation
* Loss of memory of what happened
* Almost comparable to smoked 5-MeO-DMT in terms of its negative effect on the mind
* Complete lack of euphoria

As a Quid:
* Slower onset
* Complete lack of twisting, twirling and rolling sensations
* Weaker visual and auditory hallucinations
* No mental disorientation
* No memory loss
* Nothing like 5-MeO-DMT, more like psilocin
* Lots of euphoria

It’s very different. It’s almost as if different compounds are at work.

The quid method seems to be more enjoyable, cant wait till the weather breaks so I could purchase a nice little plant for experimentation. Thanks for the comparison.

I disagree 100% with rons account of quidding effects..

There is twisting..there is LOTS of mental effects if you take the full dose..and memory loss can happen as well..maybe not at super low doses..but those effects are not there with low doses of smoked leaf either..low doses of smoked salvia are nothing like 5meoDMT..they are more similar to psilocin as well.

If you take this stuff with the mazatecs..they sit RIGHT beside you..becasue they know how people loose it completely at times even quidding fresh leaf like the mazatecs..they dont do that with the mushrooms..Kathlene harrison did lots of work with salvia alongside the mazatecs and has talked about this before..how they explained to her that salvia will take some peopel so far out there and that they need to be right there to bring them back..

Ive never noticed a big difference between low doses of smoked leaf and low doses of fresh quids..other than the obvious length..without the rapid onset it just seems smoother..ive taken salvia probly 3-400 times so I can tell the differences.

I think it's just hard to reach a high dose with a quid and thats why people think its so different..the fear due to rapid onset and intensity of smoking ruins it for people and they become disphoric.

Fractal enchantment and SWIM don't see eye to eye on this at all.

Another thing I think there's disagreement on is that the fresh salvia leaves SWIM used were required for the pleasant effects. Old leaves had the same effect as smoking, but were much weaker. Fractal enchantment's descriptions remind me of the old leaves.

SWIM only used fresh leaves for quidding and found the old ones unpleasant. I want to be clear on that.

SWIM’s salvia seems to be different in effects from what Fractal enchantment has. With SWIM's, the fresh leaves were like psilocin, even at pretty high doses. It was totally different than old or smoked leaves. I think a different compound was in the fresh leaves.

His were grown in his house, not bought on-line.

He has had some of his friend's fresh salvia leaves, and it wasn't the same. It lacked the psilocin effect of the fresh leaves SWIM's salvia had. So there are differences among these plants.

im talking about fresh leaves..i havent bought salvia in many years..its all grown by me.

THe thing is..I cant seem to get to a breakthrough level quidding..the mazatecs quid huge ammounts..anywhere from 26 to 52 or more leaves..i have had the stretching and pulling effects from lower ammounts of leaves..and lots of mental effects..but I never took 26 or 52 leaves becasue my plants would be stripped clean..quidding like 10 leaves i dont think will cut it. Its like smoking 1 hit of plain leaf.

I think your salvia is not the same as SWIM's. You probably have the one SWIM's friend has which lacks the compound responsible for the effects SWIM got from his.

Let me explain. With SWIM's friend’s salvia, the fresh leaves were no more potent than the dried ones when used as a quid, and the effects were identical, similar to smoking it, but still many times better than smoking it. SWIM’s salvia leaves were very different when fresh, at least 10 times more potent when fresh, and the effects are totally different. If taken after the leaves were just a few hours old, the effects were already weaker. After 1 day, they were about 1/10 the strength and not good anymore.

There are apparently differences between these plants. Some people have the same variety that SWIM had, and they notice the fresh leaves are WAY BETTER. Others have a variety that is missing something in the fresh leaves.

Maybe growing conditions affect the actives present. I'm not sure, but his friends fresh leaves were not the same as SWIM's. The difference was huge. Sadly though, SWIM's plant died.

And let’s not forget the awful, vile bitter flavor of fresh salvia leaves. When you first put them in your mouth, not so bad. But start chewing on them, and holding them in your mouth for awhile. Yuck.

And when using fresh leaves, the traditional method is to use 13 pairs of leaves – 26 fresh, jungle-sized leaves! (I’ve had leaves that were 16” long and 7” wide – imagine 26 of those in your mouth!)

I’m just having fun. Seriously, whatever works for each of us is what’s most important.