For anyone who isnt already aware of this method ...[for long term DMT storage..] below are some older posts on the subject....

I hate to think of people taking the risk of storing .. powder or crystals..around their homes that stand the remote chance of being discovered by someone else...

I offered this idea years back and still stand by its convienent and stealthy method of storage..

Storing your spice pure crystals ...or even jungle spice... is easy by desolving it in high proof grain alcohol ..and putting it in an amber colored one oz dropper bottle...

Keeping it in a cool temperature enviorment.. posibly in the dark starage area like a closet...

Also it has the advantage of quick and easy disposal in an emergency by emptying bottle and a quick rinse in warm water...

I have used this storrage method for long periods and noticed no reduction in potency..just figure out your math for how many mgs of actives are in one drop of tincture....

The need for this may never happen for most of us...but thinking ahead always pays off in an emergency..

read old posts below....





dmt storage in grain alcohol or napatha? which is best? Options

starway6
#1
Posted : 3/3/2015 11:10:51 PM

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Ive been storing my Acacia tincture in a safe grain alcohol for some time because its so convienient this way...

I dont feel its harming the molecule ..but then again im not
perfectly shure..

A post recently claimed that evaporating the alcohol in the tincture may degrade the dmt some when it hits the air?

Instead he claimed that storage in napatha will do no harm to the molecule at all...

I now have fresh napatha pulls saturated with crystals and the crystals remain in crystal form laying in bottom of jar..

Alcohol will desolve any dmt crystals ..right away.. but suspends it well..

Any bright chemists here have an opinion on this subject?

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downwardsfromzero
#2
Posted : 3/4/2015 8:48:57 AM

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What post is this you're referring to? I did a quick search and yours was the only post that came up!

Oxygen is rather less soluble in alcohol than it is in naphtha (look here on page 8 of the pdf, or page 170 of the journal. Compare ethanol values with any of the saturated hydrocarbon values.)

I think you're better off sticking with the alcohol as it's more 'food grade' than naphtha ever is.
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pitubo
#3
Posted : 3/4/2015 1:19:33 PM

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One slight disadvantage over naphtha is ethanol's tendency to absorb water.

Otherwise, I think that your idea of keeping the DMT in an ethanolic tincture for the purpose of both "low profile" storage and easy dosing is a great innovation.

Many people do not have a milligram scale (and most of the cheap scales should not be given too much confidence either). If one is able to measure DMT at the scale of 1 gram +/- 0.1 gram (meaning 10% uncertainty), then dissolving that quantity of DMT in an amount of ethanol equivalent to 100 drops means that 1 drop of tincture will hold between 9 and 11 milligrams of DMT. This is of course assuming that one can produce drops with a reasonable consistency in volume. If a small volume syringe or analytical pipette is used, very good accuracy is attainable, probably much better than most cheap milligram scales can give in actual real practice.

starway6
#4
Posted : 3/4/2015 5:22:35 PM

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downwardsfromzero wrote:
What post is this you're referring to? I did a quick search and yours was the only post that came up!

Oxygen is rather less soluble in alcohol than it is in naphtha (look here on page 8 of the pdf, or page 170 of the journal. Compare ethanol values with any of the saturated hydrocarbon values.)

I think you're better off sticking with the alcohol as it's more 'food grade' than naphtha ever is.



Thanks..I was just concerned about gradual deterioration of the spice over time..

I do like to store it in grain alcohol because of its so convienent...and it can be a problem storing it in crystal form..

starway6
#5
Posted : 3/4/2015 5:28:57 PM

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pitubo wrote:
One slight disadvantage over naphtha is ethanol's tendency to absorb water.

Otherwise, I think that your idea of keeping the DMT in an ethanolic tincture for the purpose of both "low profile" storage and easy dosing is a great innovation.

Many people do not have a milligram scale (and most of the cheap scales should not be given too much confidence either). If one is able to measure DMT at the scale of 1 gram +/- 0.1 gram (meaning 10% uncertainty), then dissolving that quantity of DMT in an amount of ethanol equivalent to 100 drops means that 1 drop of tincture will hold between 9 and 11 milligrams of DMT. This is of course assuming that one can produce drops with a reasonable consistency in volume. If a small volume syringe or analytical pipette is used, very good accuracy is attainable, probably much better than most cheap milligram scales can give in actual real practice.



I like alcohol storage a lot .. its very easy and ..LOW PROFILE.. and easy to dose and in safe grain alcohol could be used oraly..

The way mine is mixed its holding between one and three mgs of dmt per drop..using small dropper..

Its interesting how saturated napatha alows the crystals to remain in crystal form but alcohol desolves it imeadiatly?

pitubo
#6
Posted : 3/4/2015 9:35:14 PM

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starway6 wrote:
I like alcohol storage a lot .. its very easy and ..LOW PROFILE.. and easy to dose and in safe grain alcohol could be used oraly..

It's not just the presence tincture that is low profile, it is also the absense of a milligram scale that is low profile.

starway6 wrote:
Its interesting how saturated napatha alows the crystals to remain in crystal form but alcohol desolves it imeadiatly?

Ethanol is a very good solvent for freebase DMT, much better than naphtha. The advantages of naphtha are its selectivity and its immiscibility with water. Those are useful qualities in an extraction procedure. As a general purpose solvent ethanol is better. Less toxic, quicker to evaporate and less conspicuous in most households.

Does saturated ethanol evap to a goo or xtal?

Quick evaporation at around room temperature leads to a goo, but slow evaporation of aqueous ethanol in a freezer produced crystals (and not just ice crystals). Presumably there is a rate/temperature cutoff line for crystals vs. goo, potentially with an overlap.

The difference, I suspect is partly down to what the above-quoted pitubo says, ethanol's tendency to absorb water. Goo formation seems to be linked with the presence of moisture in the solvent. However, at a certain percentage of water in ethanol - which I found to be around 50% - DMT starts to crystallise out of aqueous ethanol at freezer temperatures, i.e. freeze precipitate. Very slow evaporation of the solvent allows these crystals to grow and at some point the ethanol content is low enough for the solvent to freeze.

Of course, at that point the solubility of freebase DMT in weak aqueous ethanol is likely to be very low - especially at -22°C. Therefore practically all of the DMT will have crystallised by that point anyhow. Under the right conditions the remaining weakly ethanolic ice will slowly sublime away, leaving only the DMT crystals. [This hypothesis awaits further experimental confirmation - but DMT most definitely precipitates from what is essentially premium strength vodka at the lowest setting of a good domestic freezer.]

Deleted

[[ However, at a certain percentage of water in ethanol - which I found to be around 50% -]]


The alcohol i used.. was 190 proof grain alcohol.. and i think the water content was very very small....

I have redissolved spice in ethanol to release any trapped solvent. I had goo for a week or so but much like acrb goo with a bit of time and scraping i got hard compact crystals that were delish. I store in parchment paper in a baggie in a cool dark place flat as a pancake and discreetly out of reach.

Storing in inert gas such as argon also prevents it turning into goo by reacting with air. I fill containers with argon gas for long storage of paints and oils ect, it keeps stuff from turning bad. Can get 2.2L bottles of pressurised 100% argon gas from trade stores.

Skoobysnax, if you have spice that has trapped solvent in it and you redissolve it in ethanol, won’t the solvent contamination still be there once the ethanol has evaporated?

The solvent contamination evaporates along with the ethanol (and water), often as a binary (or ternary) azeotrope. If heavy hydrocarbons are suspected of being present, a mini A/B and/or recrystallisation from clean heptane is preferable.

Thanks for clarifying that So spice impurities become attached to ethanol. When combined they evaporate together. That's great, I always assumed otherwise. It's good to know that ethanol is a way to purify spice but like you say min A/B and/or recrystallisation might be preferable.

But what downwards means is a SOLVENTcontamination. So your spice still holds some liquid stuff in it, then mixing it with more solvent and evaporate it will remove it. But not if you have like brown crude spice, then putting in ethanol and evaporate will still be crude brown. But i would guess it will not even crystallize anymore but even if it would, then it would be just as not pure as before.

That's right, you can't clear out involatile impurities without some additional kind of phase separation process.

Roger that Twilight Person, thanks man.

Just to clarify (I’ve gotten myself confused again!) by solvent contamination you mean solvent that hasn’t completely evaporated from the spice, not solvent contamination in the sense that there are contaminates/impurities in the solvent composition that have been left behind in the spice? For example, if someone used Shellite in a tek, that failed the evap test, would dissolving the contaminated spice with ethanol remove the potential Shellite impurities, would they collect together and evaporate away? Or would these impurities be considered heavy hydrocarbons/involatile impurities that would require a min A/B and/or recrystallisation in order to purify the spice? I’d say it’s the latter but it’d make life a lot easier if ethanol could clean up the Shellite

Solvent remnants trapped within the crystals. The more volatile parts will evaporate along with the ethanol or acetone or whatever volatile (here in the sense of easy to evaporate, btw) solvent you've chosen for the process.

If the contaminants are non-volatile or high-boiling components from the NPS you'll need to either perform several recrystallisations from clean solvent - this can be naphtha, heptane or possibly aqueous ethanol [vodka] - or do a mini-A/B again using clean NPS to collect the freebase. Freeze precipitation is preferable over evaporation in order to get a purer product.

*re-x from vodka is still requiring experimental development, so you'd be out on a limb a bit if you tried that; good technical understanding would be helpful although it really is quite simple (but then again, so is elegant woodworking...)

Brilliant, thanks downwardsfromzero, very clear explanation

One more thing, plain 96% ethanol helps clear up volatile contaminants through a simple dissolve and evaporate process because there are various other solvents which form low-boiling azeotropes with ethanol (and/or water). The mixture evaporates more easily, so the solvent contamination gets removed more thoroughly than simply being released from the crystal matrix and evaporating by itself. It doesn't have to wait its turn, so to speak, since the ethanol (often) helps to carry it away.

Bisy wrote:
Does saturated ethanol evap to a goo or xtal?

I always knew the evaporated alcohol would leave a waxy dmt .. still quite usable... but evap at a lowtemp?

Quick evaporation at around room temperature leads to a goo, but slow evaporation of aqueous ethanol in a freezer produced crystals (and not just ice crystals). Presumably there is a rate/temperature cutoff line for crystals vs. goo, potentially with an overlap.

Wow ..I should have read more of these posts!

I never thought dmt desolved in 190 proof alcohol would evaporate at such ..a low temperature.. in freezer and produce crystals...

Thought it was to cold to evaporate!

Does this crystalization happen at only a certain temperature?

It was 40% abv (80° proof US) and evaporated at -18°C (255K) over the course of several months. The vessel size was a small (5mL? 10mL?) volumetric flask.