For those who have not heard there is some new products that just popped up which are allot like Mary Jane. it contains the active ingredient JWH-018 I have tried Serenity now and I have to say it is really like being stoned and it cannot be detected on a drug screen nor is it illegal in the US as of right now but it is only a matter of time before it is since it is one of the few 'fake weeds' that actually work. Thought you guys would want to check it out. There's many names I know K2 and Serenity now works. The others may not work as well. Be careful tho it is much more powerful than a typical joint. I cant handle more than 2-3 hits from a joint. If you have a bad experience chances are you smoked too much.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/...inghallucinationsinteens

in news today.

Research chemicals are not safe.

Now, he's obviously not gonna endorse it, he created it and is not gonna want to deal with the flack that an endorsement would cause.
however, he has come out and said multiple times that this is not necessarily safe to be ingesting and is adamantly opposed to its use. Call it the "Albert Hoffman effect" except in this case he's saying it has no benefits whatsoever, even therapeutically. The man created it...maybe he has some credibility?

SB

Wow, that is such a broad statment.

Remember that MDMD was a research chemical at one time, as was LSD....as is ANY new chemical.

4-aco-dmt has the same safety profile as 4-ho-dmt/4-po-dmt (mushrooms)

Most tryptamines are extremely physically safe.

So to say, ALL research chems are not safe is just untrue. They are being RESEARCHED to find out how safe they are.

It's like saying all plants are dangerous because someone at a few jimsonweed plants and had a 2 week delirum. Not all plants are dangerous even though we don't know long term effects of use, nor can we say they are all safe.

The safety profile of many RC have yet to be established, but that does not mean they are all dangerous, nor are they all safe.

Imagine how much cheaper weed would be if allowed to operate in the free market. K2 is already $30-35 for 3 oz, which is $10-$20 less than 1/8 of good weed where I'm at. Plus its effects are multiple times as powerful as weed, so logic dictates that one could smoke/vape 1/3 or less of K2 and receive the same level of a high as with weed.

now now now, let's not get carried away here. where i am k2/spice/all this crap is going for 50-60 for 3.5 grams in the headshops. Also, just because its 3x as powerful doesnt mean its 3x as good. Its missing all the other cannabinoids that make good strains good. The efects are similar to weed, but to say its the same high just 3x more potent is misleading (kart, sorry if i misconstrued your statement at all, but by saying that logically 1/3 the amount of spice = same high as weed, i had to disagree).

I would like to reiterate for those who don't know or those who do know and might have forgotten: JWH compounds merely bind to the CB receptor sites. Molecularly they are not the same as natural cannabinoids, which is why they are not automatically scheduled by the analogue act.

Oh, and for those of you who would say a couple molecular differences is no big deal, or that it's "only different by a couple of molecules", all I can do is laugh and say that it's your body and your choice.

peace
SB

I think you misread. $30-35 for 3 Oz's? Try $30-60 for 3.5 grams. Also it is not more powerful than weed. That statement was misleading pure JWH-018 is more potent than THC neither weed nor K2 are pure compounds. They are mixtures the quality depends on how much in my experiences these blends are equally as strong as good cannabis although I have only tried a few of them. Pure JWH-018 is strong 5mg is a high dose but you are buying a pre-blended mix with k2.

It is amazing how much BS propaganda they stick in these reports. They try so desperately and obviously to scare people and it just doesn't work b/c they have no credibility any more. Also you gotta expect Huffman to say that. I guarantee he or some of his grad students were the first to try these compounds. The effects are unknown all the more reason to study them, however unknown and dangerous are completely different. Only time and research will tell. However making these substances illegal will only promote others (with structural diversity) to take their place.

Additionally the JWH-018 powder coming out of china is of an amazing high purity (based on ms analysis). I don't know of the blends though.

If you're comfortable being a test subject, then by all means do so as that is your right. But don't try to argue that it's safe to buy a chemical from a woefully unregulated and possibly black market manufacturer that has practically no information available on its long term effects in humans. Pure JWH-018 could be safe or not, but that isn't really what we're discussing. Purchasing an RC in our current climate of 'law enforcement over harm reduction' bundles all the problems of a chinese chemical supply company, all the problems of an untested drug (how many pharms turn out to have terrible side effects a year after release?), and all the problems of a black market distribution chain simultaneously.

Buying street drugs one has no way of knowing what they are getting. RCs are usually what they say they are ( I have analysed many from many sources). Occasionally this is not true but far less than with street drugs. Also RCs also tend to be of a high purity. One should always test their compounds although many don't have this luxury. Never the less the gov needs to regulate the entire recreational drug market as they do with ethanol and nicotine products. FDA approved recreational drugs?

I agree that even still one is taking some a risk however if not taken chronically and done responsibly there is minimal chance of danger even with "toxic" agents. It is typically chronic use that causes issue (dose dependent obviously) associated with drugs (most cases). One just needs to be smart. Also many RCs (esp. the stimulants) have actually been tested by pharmaceutical companies and even in clinical trails but were discontinued for one reason or another (and typically not safety). One just needs to look back in the literature also looking at the profile of similar agents can help.

A well-known RC vendor just a few months ago sold a batch of contaminated Bromo-Dragonfly that was also mislabeled as 2c-b-fly, which resulted in deaths and hospitalizations. Sure, the number of people who got hurt was probably a small subset of those who actually purchase these things. Nobody can even say for sure whether the Chinese firm who produced the bad and mislabeled batch is still out there in one form or another, still producing RCs or other chemicals. The owner of the reselling company died from this very product, and he probably felt pretty sure of himself.

This site is based on taking in chemicals that arent made by major pharmaceuticals. I dont think the fact that there are some unknowns will deter most people here. The real mindblowing deal for me on all of this is that this stuff actually works and well and that it is legal in the US. It's one of the best events against prohibition in a long time. I have absolutely no doubt it will be cut off soon. This is a major loophole in the canabis laws.

To your first statement I must ask, why? To your second statement, I must respectfully disagree.

This is not mindblowing, it's actually quite simple. The compounds in these products are not scheduled by the CSA, so they are not in violation of that legislation. The molecular structure of the chemicals in these products are not analogous to any scheduled substance, so they are not in violation of that legislation either. As the compounds found in these products are neither controlled substances, nor analogues, they are perfectly legal (for the time being).

This is not "one of the best events against prohibition in a long time", this is not even a good move against prohibition in the history of time. This is akin to someone, during 1920's prohibition, marketing ethanol biofuel as a legal way to get drunk (ok, so not exactly, but you get my point). This is nothing related to prohibition and is, in reality, just some entrepreneur trying to make a buck. In fact, this is another heinous atrocity caused as a result of prohibition. If cannabis were legal, people would be smoking a relatively safe product as opposed to trying some synthetic with no history of human use whatsoever and no record of effects on the human body.

It shows there are going to be loopholes in outlawing any drug and now that technology has evolved people are going to find new compounds to get around the rules. Therefore anti-drug laws while not really effective are even further rendered as a useless tool to control any drug. The man who discovered this new drug was even quoted as saying there is no reason to outlaw it because some one will just as quickly find another.

That's not new, this is not revolutionary, as long as you don't violate the tenets of the CSA or Analogue act, you're in the clear. So, what you're saying is that these fake cannibinoids are a turning point. I'm saying no, if you wanna make that claim, it's RCs that were the turning point in realizing this "loophole". These substances are doing absolutely nothing as far as fighting prohibition or making any headway. Sorry, I just don't see anything new being unearthed here as your prior claims would have people believe.

The first analogue drugs were various heroin esters (dipropyl-morphine, dibenzoyl-morphine...) in the early 1900's following the prohibition of heroin (diacetyl-morphine). This cat and mouse game has been going on for sometime. When they prohibit something aspiring entrepreneurs will find away around the law. Designer opioids and dissociatives were huge in the 70's and 80's. JWH and many research chemicals are not analogues of controlled substances due to structural differences. However none of these items are technically marketed for human consumption either (another factor in the analogue act). They therefore do not fall under the analogue bill.

The people need to understand that they can not curtail recreational use of non-approved intoxicants. Thus the best way to deal with the inherent dangers of this behavior is to regulate it. Thus the people have control over the purity, content, availability, price, and can place restrictions on its sale. They can also tax it and use this to help those who abuse, as well as educate people on responsible use (which is more common than people realize even with so called hard drugs). Prohibition is far worse for society than all the illicit drugs combined. The government sees it as a business venture (it is a multi- billion dollar industry) if we ask them for their opinion of course they are going to say we need more of them and their strategies..... ask a tobacco company about placing more regulations on cigarettes? They have an economic interest in it.....

This crap is bring imported from China. They are the folks who put melamine in baby formula and lead paint on kids toys. What, exactly, is on those "incense herbs" besides the cool new chemical that is kinda like THC but not really?

The guy that invented it said he's quite sure that the effects being reported by those smoking it are not just from the chemical he created. So what do you think is causing them?

I'll spray a mix of shit from my cleaning supplies on some herbs and you can go smoke it and get really high.

How bright. Darwin awards for all of the K2 smokin' morons.

Pokey the Incense Baron

A couple things here:

1. Isn't K2 the shit that BBB just got busted for (or am I mistaken)? I mean, I know there was a long list of items that are being challenged by the procecution, but I thought K2 was the biggie that triggered the whole raid. I think that's why the FDA was involved as well, because it made claims about it's psychiatric properties w/o having a disclaimer that it had not been evaluated by the FDA. I would stay far away from this shit until the air clears on it (simply for legal reasons). JMHO

2. Just because stuff is legal doesn't mean it will come cheap. Kratom is a perfect example. Even sold as plain, unenhanced leaf, it's still quite expensive for being a legal substance (granted, it does take years to grow a mature, high alkaloid specimen).

The alkoloid isolates and enhanced leaf are astronomically expensive! More expensive than it would be to purchase prescription opiates at street value! So I guess my point is that it's all still a supply and demand issue. If K2 is either hard to produce / obtain by the average joe, or takes a highly experienced chemist to manufacture, you can bet your sweet bottom dollar that it wont be cheap. It may in fact be MORE expensive because of low-risk legality potential (if it does turn out to be legally free and clear).

Additionally - as my always rational friend Snozz pointed out. Extract labelings are pretty much worth their weight in helium. It's all just a marketing scheme for the most part. Rarely, if ever, is a 3x product actually 3 times as strong as it's unenhanced source.

Just my two (err... 4 or 6 cents.)

Peace,
-idt

TG - This is unfortunate, but interesting none the less. Any chance you have a good link to this story?

Peace,
-idt

Is there any way the authorities could change the law so that any substance / chemcal that alters consciousness is outlawed? Would it be possible for them to say any unapproved substance that has no other use is illegal? It amazes me that vendors get away with the whole "not for human consumpton" thing. I assume this would not be practical in some way, but it would be a way for them to put a blanket ban on any recreational drug without the need to specify a molecule. Any thoughts?