Thank you, Acolyte & Traveller, for doing all of this.

I'm going to give this one more shot and then assume that my voice is falling on deaf ears. The argument I am making is being blown out of proportion.

ISSUE #1: It has been suggested that I am suggesting a "full scale cover-up."

I am not suggesting a full scale cover-up. I am suggesting that when an interested party looks at CEL, they should be able to find all the information they need by staying on the CEL website.


ISSUE #2: It has been suggested that the Nexus should change internally, rather than carefully forming guidelines for the CEL website.

It seems to me that it would be much easier to make reasonable guidelines for CEL (a brand-new organization with a blank slate and its own website), rather than forcing some revolution within the Nexus itself. I am not suggesting that we sever all connection or deny connection between CEL and the Nexus. Why not have a simple disclaimer in the "About us" section that says: While CEL was established and is supported by members of the DMT-Nexus, CEL is an independent organization and does not necessarily endorse the ideas presented within the DMT-Nexus website.

I don't think a simple disclaimer is too much to ask and for the most part, it is all that I am asking. Not only does it openly state its relationship with the Nexus, but it shows that we are not forever dependent upon it.


ISSUE #3: There seems to be a feeling that if the Nexus is not the central station for CEL projects, CEL will fail.

Look, compared to the enormous amount of people who lurk the Nexus, only a few have shown sincere interest in working towards CEL's goals. If it is too much work to post in the CEL forums about CEL projects, then why do we even have the separate website with a functioning forum?

I am not suggesting that we have to move the e-book project to the CEL website. It's our first project and no one outside the Nexus is even going to glance at the CEL webpage until this project is completed and published. But to be completely honest, why NOT move it to CEL's site? It's a click away whether or not it is within the Nexus. It would allow for the benefit of having an active forum already in play when the book is released and the site starts gaining attention.


ISSUE #4: CEL has its own site, right?

CEL has it's own website. We are going to use it, right? Again, none of the things that I am suggesting are for immediate implementation, but with the way some people are talking there is no point to bother with a separate domain name at all. We have a new domain name. Let's USE it. It doesn't have to start now, but I think that it is more than reasonable to suggest that CEL business eventually be conducted on the fully-functioning CEL website. If not, why did anyone bother to make it?


ISSUE #5: We should feel comfortable giving away our real identities on the CEL website.

It is naive to think that we'll have a successful long-term run if we're operating with pseudonyms. No curious outsider of any importance will take us seriously if the organization is run under a mysterious man that we call "The Traveler," no matter how well he runs it. No congressman will care about an issue without identities behind a complaint. No celebrity is going to show open support when the members themselves do not openly show their own support. If we can't at least have real identities, then CEL is pointless. We may as well continue operating as the Nexus.


Closing notes:
1) In order to show real identities, I think some members need to start more seriously considering CEL as separate entity from the Nexus after this book is released.
2) Ask yourself what benefit YOU expect the CEL website to provide.
3) Ask yourself if you're dedicated enough to work on future CEL projects outside of the Nexus.
4) Ask yourself how non-Nexians will ever get involved with CEL unless the CEL website is the main means of operation.
5) Start thinking about some long-term goals for CEL.
6) I cannot show support for CEL if its motto is: "CEL: We're pretty much the Nexus." Is that what we want?



amor_fati, the picture that you have painted of CEL is one that could be accomplished entirely within the Nexus. In the short-term, for the duration of the e-book project, your comments not only make sense but I completely agree! In the long-term, though, the amount of influence of the Nexus on CEL seems to be dramatically over-exaggerated by your suggestions. It is a very simple matter to move forum discussion of CEL from one URL to another. Using the Nexus as the main means of operation devalues the potential of CEL's website with no obvious gain. We can always and should always keep updates about CEL in the Nexus forum, but I cannot honestly see a reason to keep the Nexus as the main discussion area for CEL when CEL has its own website, just a click away. What do you see as the role of the CEL website?

No disagreement here. Despite bouncing my views off of yours for most of the thread, that statement wasn't intended for you so much as to simply make my stance on the matter clear, since it is under general discussion here. My attempt to distinguish that response from those geared directly at you was perhaps a weak one.



A disclaimer would probably be a great idea! As I said, we need to cover our bases. But let's not forget that the Nexus is our best hope of providing an example of how the community is something beneficial, and its a strength, unique to CEL. The community doesn't need full revolution, it needs to be as strong as possible in moving forward and asserting progressive policy. What I'm really saying is that CEL needs to influence the Nexus as much as the Nexus influences CEL.



No, just that it needs to mature a bit and have time for work to migrate onto the the site and for members to evolve into CEL.



Absolutely. I would suggest no new threads on this subforum, and that any work or action threads' discussion that can be moved over there be moved. Perhaps a clear causeway from the subforum to the CEL forums. I would also like to see designated wiki-work presented on there and workable from there if possible, though it's perhaps not necessary for a front-end such as the CEL-hub is.




I wholly agree, but this is a difficult issue that we mustn't rush headlong into. We need to protect ourselves to some extent, which means we need to consider the risks of connecting identities. I've posed the questions regarding this time and time again, but to little avail. I've also made suggestions in the matter that I hope some are taking into serious consideration. But yes, we need to be real people doing real work.



Well, don't think I'm simply trying to argue against you so much as just bouncing my views off of yours, however seemingly contrary, for the sake of moving this discussion forward and developing feasible ideas in the matter. CEL will always be imbued with the spirit of Nexus, and even when it comes to stand independently of the Nexus, they will still guide each other to some degree. While I feel that CEL is the public mouthpiece of the Nexus, it doesn't have to be officially declared, but the Nexus should take care not to contradict the honeyed words of CEL nor should CEL misrepresent the community exemplified by the Nexus. The two can and should be made to strengthen one another.

We have agreement! I feel a lot better after that discussion.

It's wonderful what can be accomplished with mature criticism.

hahah, SORRY Kartikay!! I didn't mean to ignore you points!

-it was late and i just started typing whatever popped into my head. My comments where by no means aimed at you nor anyone. Thank you for your bold last stand.





I'm gonna disagree with both Kartikay and Amor here. Feel free to respond!!!

With the CEL Project Section here our new and more lazy Members have an opportunity to join and provide feedback! If we move the CEL Project section entirely off the Nexus at this point (although perhaps we can later!), the projects will strangle and die... as it's hard enough to keeps ourselves fully engaged and on task as it is!

ALSO, being in the development stage, with just 7 of us off on our own website, our inherent assumptions will quickly iterate upon each other and drift away from 1) representing the entire community and 2) lack the inherent robust vitality of introducing a new world wide zeitgeist. i feel we simply need the Nexus to keep us in check as we grow. Once we're strong enough on our own, with a solid foundation, yes everyone of your recommendations will be necessary and we must then move.

The Nexus is our nursry and we are still Spirits!



haha, nope. lol, this is hilarious!

I think the CEL Forums are a perfect place for those we stir up to join the discussion; a place for newcomers to meet and ask questions of various representatives of our community. Basically, to exist as the PR side of the whole ethnobotanical community. People read the eBook, see our ad campaigns, read our newsletters, etc and they go there if they want to help, learn more, or rant/complain! and we will support them in this effort.



Real identities is a big issue. To be taken seriously YES, we must show our own support. However, this should NOT BE DONE until it's obvious that 1) you can do this without instantly getting arrested in your area and 2) that the CEL Organization will actually exist in the first place, and not fizzle.


EXCELLENT THREAD THIS.



i am so grateful to you all!

I haven't kept up with the Nexus for a while (no internet) so I'm a few steps behind any conversation, but I agree with this sentiment after having seen the CEL website. This is politics and human relations after all and the connotations of language have a huge impact on the reception of ideas.

I would alter the "Defend those who needlessly drain the resources"-part too.

Perhaps it could be changed to something like
"Defend harmless citicens from prosecution for possession & personal use of harmless psychedelic substances and stop needlessly draining
the resources of the International Justice Systems".

Perhaps another Goal could be added:
Start "CEL-embassies" in countries all over the world to offer and distribute correct and
plentyfull information about Entheogens to the Public, Government systems and Justice Systems.

Shamanic healing(Spiritual Trauma recovery, Addiction cessation, Spiritual Rejuvenation) with Ayahuasca, Iboga and other plant Teachers.
The many 1000s of years old history of human use of these Teacher Plants. Psychotherapy and LSD being used, very succesfully, to heal
Post Traumatic Stress disorders and terminate alcohol and opiate addictions. Psychedelics such as LSD, Peyote, Magic Mushrooms, Ayahuasca and
the Like being used as tools to explore one's own consciousness. To grow as a person, to stir up creativity and develop great new graphical art, new architectural designs,
new medicines and new Socio/political systems. To dissolve one´s Ego and to look past one´s own mental/psychological limitations. To let go of experiences you havn't been able
to psychologically "digest" yet, and clean out your being.

These are sides people really need to see too. And that there are ways of doing Entheogens safely and responsibly.
A physical CEL building could make this information available and well-distrivuted.

every time i try to access the website i get "problem loading page"

is it still active?

Due to lack of activity I shut it down since it gained a lot of interest from bots. If needed I can pull up a new site in no time, but then we need to have people who are willing to actively support it and work on it.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

thanks for the reply.

hopefully it can thrive some day in the future.

Is this website still viable? I can't seem to connect to it. Is there a new one, or has all discussion simply been kept at the nexus?

I think a new website should have a better, more catchy and brandable name. Also possibly a .org domain name. I got at least one idea but won't talk about it publically to prevent it from getting snatched up by the enemy I would like to evaluate if people would agree with me here and if you believe that it is possible to reboot it.

It's tempting to think that we would need to have everything in place to restart this thing while i would hold against it, that momentum is all we need. Keeping the flame burning so to speak.

obliguhl, interested members should download torchat and we should etablish a time to meet up on there so that we can really beat out some ideas. Also, we don't need to have everything together to launch a website. Simply having a static webpage stating "Future Homepage of CEL" with a copy of a charter and mission statements and maybe even paypal/bitcoin donation option would suffice for now. Having an official email (something like admin@XXXXXXX.org) would make it much easier to get official endorsement from MAPS and Erowid (I think getting endorsement from established groups is essential). I'll take care of social media if you'll take care of the actual website.

Who else is seriously interested in getting this off the ground?

I'm sad to discover this and find it to be inactive for over 3 years! I think with what is steamrolling with MJ becoming legal in many states, and the feds actually making rules for banks to loan to upstarts of dispensaries, that it's might be a good time to reboot this!

I agree about a better name and .org domain name. Also, support sounds very wise. Even reaching out to the likes of Alex Gray or the living McKenna, etc., after it's established. This site/organization needs to be big and have real clout behind it to gain any real traction in the world.

CEL to me just sounds like it could connotate a bad image to the uninitiated public. Such as a cell organization, like a criminal group. I don't think it's the best acronym. I do have knowledge of the best acronym of all time though. That would be TLA; a three letter acronym for three letter acronym

Seriously, I'd love to see this conversation/project get rebooted.

me too, and I can probably help with the website in one way or another