In another thread I came across a member mentioning that Yerba maté is sort of similar to MDMA, but mildly so.

I’ve noticed in doses of 10 grams or more that Yerba maté is definitely a mild auditory psychedelic. My sense of hearing is very noticeably altered by it. Things sound more crisp, more detailed. Also I’ve noticed a sense of empathy, and of course lots of euphoria and mental clarity.

I saw a few reports elsewhere (1 is on Erowid) where the auditory effects were noted by other individuals as well.

The alterations of the perception of sound, the euphoria, the mental clarity, and the empathogenic effects it produces, in my opinion classify it as a weak psychedelic.

I’m wondering what other people think and if they too have noticed these effects from higher doses of Yerba maté.

Also, does anyone have any idea what compound causes these effects? It’s not caffeine. Caffeine does not affect me like that. I know, I’ve had pure caffeine many times. Could this be the eugenol present that is doing this? It is structurally similar to mescaline.

That's quite interesting.

I've definately noticed a definite feeling of well being and it certainly leaves my senses sharpened, but those are things that I'd associate more with a good wake up medicine than a psychedelic. I brew 15gs at a time and that seems to tune me in nicely, but it's definately, for me at least a very refined stimulant with the kinks ironed out.

I do understand where you're coming from, but I wouldn't call it a psychedelic.

It also contains safrole which is a precursor to MDMA.

its a stimulating and mildy empathogenic for me..
I dont think its the caffine..its nothing like coffee..coffee always makes me burned out and tired and also jittery and anxious..so i dont drink it..but mate never does any of that.

I think it's the eugenol and the safrole that are producing these psychedelic effects in Yerba maté. Eugenol is structurally similar to mescaline, and safrole is so closely related to MDMA that it’s used to make it.

Safrole is said by some to be psychedelic, and said to be the main active compound in sassafras. Sassafras is definitely a mild psychedelic, especially if brewed using cold water. It is similar to MDMA in its effects but very mild.

I was surprised to find that Yerba maté contains these two mescaline-like molecules. But it could explain the reason why I get mild psychedelic effects from it.

I have never had pure safrole or eugenol, so I can’t really say if that’s the effect I’m getting or not, but at no dose does caffeine cause any of those effects for me other than mild euphoria and mental clarity. The empathogenic effects and auditory effects are not caused by caffeine, at least in me. Nor does theobromine or theophylline cause those effects in me. It’s not a xanthene that’s doing it. I’m sure of that.

That's quite interesring. Isn't eugenol also sometimes used as a precursor to MDMA when safrole is less available?

Yes, I think so.

I also just ran across this: "Yerba mate has been reported to have MAO-inhibitor activity in one in vitro study". Interesting. So it contains precursors to phenethylamine psychedelics and is also an MAOI! No wonder I get mild psychedelic effects from it. I’m very curious about this reported MAOI activity. I'll do more research on it.

I do not find Yerba mate psychedelic alone, however, as a substitute for coffee it's great!

I've been a big coffee consumer over the years and it has pretty much destroyed my stomach. One cup Yerba mate with a bit of agave nectar and I have all the energy I need for the day without the harsh mid-day crash.

Thank you Yerba Mate!

PS I don't believe Yerba mate contains safrole. If I'm the poster you mentioned my brew was 2 parts Yerba mate 1 part Sassafras (which contains the sasfrole). I could be wrong on this. This brew for me WAS psychedelic. ;-)

--
K

SWIM actually tried it for the first time today after hearing great things about it.

He doubts that eugenol plays a large his experience with cloves (eugenol as the main active) via extraction produced extremely lame mass-sedation and unwillingness to do ANYTHING.

It is however mildly psychedelic indeed, SWIM also notes he did not know it is MAGICALLY DELICIOUS. Really a delight!

It really doesn't ring as closely familiar to anything SWIM has tried. No big body high of mescaline, miles away from coffee, different than theobromine for sure.

SWIM was like "$8.99.... i guess...." Now he is extremely satisfied with the effects of a single bag!

buy bulk organic !

this is funny, I always thought it was my shitty hearing, but I notice everything gets quieter every time I drink mate (every morning) like acid or spice. very mild.
doesn't feel like MDMA to me at all, but gives me energy to clean the house and begin another day.

Einstein drank it...

It's loaded with vitamins and minerals. Bliss

Does anyone know if these precursors cross the blood-brain-barrier (BBB)? I think that makes a big difference in how well a precursor works.

This is a very cool thread BTW. I have no experience using either of these substances. Going on line to find some now!

Peace!
-idt

Psychedelic? Not for me. But here is an embarassing anecdote I'll share for the amusement of all:

8 or 9 years ago, I actually spent a night in the ER over too much yerba mate.

I'd never heard of it at the time, but a friend recommended it as a coffee substitute (of which I tend to drink way too much), so I went out at lunch, bought a bag and bombilla, brought it back to the office and honked it down hard throughout the afternoon.

Initially, I found it to be very pleasant - both mentally and physically stimulating - and then gradually, as I continued to fill up cup after cup after cup after cup, I started feeling progressively ringier. I haven't a clue how many times I did this, as there's never a whole lot of actual liquid in a mug tightly packed full of grounds - but I'm guessing I topped it off 30, 40 times over the course of 4-5 hours.

Anyway, I just kept filling and draining and filling and draining, all the while feeling more and more toxic, until I eventually found myself quite delerious, vomiting HEAVILY AND CONTINUOUSLY for a good solid five or six hours. I truly felt as though I was closing in on a heart attack or stroke. I had awful tinnitus, a hard time breathing - the whole thing was just ridiculous.

Eventually, the wife hauled me down to emergency, where they kept me all night replenishing fluids and looking at me like I was an imbecile.

Since then, I stick to the triple espressos. A man needs to know his limits.

Art, it shouldn't be, but that's hilarious .... sounds like the kind of thing I would do.

It's interesting how the votes are coming in. It's definitely a mixed reaction among people.

For me, its dose related. Below 10 grams, it’s not psychedelic, just pleasantly stimulating, but at 10 grams or more it’s mildly psychedelic for me.

It tastes GREAT. I actually got interested in Yerba mate from the Nexus. No one said anything about it being mildly psychedelic though. That was a surprise to me.

Once I get passed the 10 gram point, my perception of music is enhanced. All sound is enhanced. Putting on a pair of good headphones and sitting back to listen to a nice album is heavenly.

Now, I’m using fresh bulk herb from the local herb store, not old stale tea bags. So maybe that makes a difference?

Mate is the shit! - SWIM usually drinks small amounts of it in the morning and after lunch, but copious amounts during the weekend. By copious SWIM means the "traditional way" in a calabash and strained through the bombilla. He never bothered measuring in grams and he only did warm water extractions on it.

The traditional way (made with warm but not hot water) is extremely stimulating, after a few sips SWIM cannot stop cleaning the house. It is stimulating but in a slightly disorienting way, he cannot focus on doing something, he may stop halfway doing one thing to begin something else just to stop after a while and start doing something else before he comes back and continue the first thing he was doing. In the end the house is clean however and everything in place!

He also gets not exactly jaw tension but something close to it. He feels his head a bit mire "wide" and possibly his hearing getting more sensitive. He gets no heart racing (as with some brands of coffee, he has no problem to sleep over a strong dose of mate and he does not feel exhausted after the effect is over.

Now, SWIM voted yes for psychedelic because not because it feels "psychedelic" with the classical sense but because it feels in par (albeit of less intensity) with the "psychedelic" effects one can get from mdma.

Infundibulum, thanks for the feedback. It seems that MDMA is the “psychedelic” people are comparing it to. Only some people classify MDMA as a psychedelic though, others classify it solely as an empathogen.

What’s interesting to me is that this similarity is being drawn, and Yerba mate does contain precursors to MDMA. That really makes me wonder.

The research I did shows Yerba mate definitely contains safrole and eugenol. Sassafras also contains these, and many find sassafras similar to MDMA in its effects.

When it comes to sassafras, it seems most active if cold water is used, and almost inactive if boiling water is used.

When I make mate, I use hot but not boiling water. Maybe I’ll try cold or warm water next time to see if its more “psychedelic” that way like sassafras is.

You guys like the taste of yerba? The Argentinian stuff I was given tastes awful. It's so bitter. Maybe it's just a bad batch. It doesn't do too much to me, drinking from a full gourd the traditional way.

Whereas I think guayusa tastes good, it has a sweeter taste. Still too much caffeine, it would be good to know how to extract and discard the caffeine.

Guayusa is definitely feelgood, but I don't count that as psychedelic. If feelgood means psychedelic then cocaine is psychedelic too, along with sex, food, taking a scenic walk... I think a psychedelic has to do more than just make you feel good.

I know what you mean;

But it is not bitter (ok, maybe slightly, but so is coffee) if one does it right. So basically the gourd is filled half way with mate, and when you fill it with warm water you don't leave it for ages. For the first 5-6 (re)fills of the gourd the brewing time is around 5-10 seconds which expands to maybe 10-20 min after, say the 30th refill. But of course all these "rules" on brewing time are a matter of "feeling" your mate and also depend on individual preference.

Especially the first sips from a 5-10 second only brewing time taste slightly bitter as well as sweet.

There are also varieties of mate with stems (con palos I think is the term) that are much less bitter.

I guess it's not so bad, but not nice either. Am I the only one who prefers guayusa? I just filled my yerba gourd after weighing how much fits in it. 30g of dried plant material to fill it, so it's not that I haven't been drinking enough Anyway I'm going to drink it all day as a reminder... remembering to stop once it feels noxious so as to not do an Art
But nothing beats coca mate. I don't like caffeine, it makes for nervous worker-bees.

Not to nitpick, but it's not spelled "maté". Properly pronounced it's "mah-tay", and spelling it with the accent would make it read "maTE", which just happens to mean "I killed"

How much mate do you guys use normally? I usually add 4 or 5 teaspoons to my gourd, but usually have trouble maintaining the mountain along one side of the gourd so I think it ends up being stronger than it should be.