So... a trip with what?

Who's the one making generalizations, here?

Hm... you seem pretty combative... why?

Here's why I ask: Your first post didn't really address the OP at all. You came in eith a correction that to me showed you had an agenda. So, bIRD_ gave their response and I asked my question about whether you were saying that such subjective feelings that you shared were applicable across the board, to which you responded no, and effectively invalidated your initial post.

You're free yo have and share your feelings a perspective, but you do seem a bit high and mighty right now. How about responding with something more constructive since the OP is requesting help in understanding something.

One love

My original question remains! What's the plan bIRD_?

I think this feeling of playing a key role is absolutely valid, I think I have also felt it on occasion. Instictively I feel that we all have the molecules that allow us to play a key role. The difference between myself and those who really do make a difference is they allow it to drive them there.

So understanding is one thing. The debate is interesting. But it deflects from the only course of action that avoids the gentle crawl back into the shell of safe obscurity. You have two options. One of them is the safety of obscurity with me, in which case no amount of understanding will make any difference when all is said and done. Or you roll with it at full throttle. That is the only way to reach the other option. Playing whatever key role you ultimately were meant to.

So we need a plan that thrusts us far away from the safe little shell. Even if we dont know what the role is yet we can be reasonably certain it is not to wait here for it to present itself.

What is so unsafe and scary about the outside? Why do you prefer the shell?

The shell is comforting obscurity. Avoiding the chance to play a key role. It is cozy and warm. No chance of failure. No chance of persecution. I can play the key role tomorrow, or perhaps next week.

Beautiful honest self awareness

One love

Right?
And by not giving yourself a chance to succeed you have basically doomed youself to failure because you will never try.
And thats the smart play, because then there is no backlash, you have made avoiding that your mission and you have figured out that the shell is the right choice.

So, if you want to do stuff you have to be dumb, really underappreciated skill.
Seriously, learn to be dumb.

If you want to give this a shot, pick something small out of that ifinite list of Ill do it tomorrows, a tiny thing, and try, and see what happens, you might fail, you might succeed, but at least you tried.
And if not, thats okay, you will do it eventually

I know where you're coming from. I recently discovered that im way more disconnected from myself than i thought and that this issue goes way back for me. Like having problems being open in groups larger than 3 - like way back, childhood stuff. I noticed alot of doubt in me, the anger i feel for my parents to have me risen like that, or avoiding the issue i had - if they even had recognized it. This feeling of "playing a key role" could also just be exactly that, the feeling of unconnectedness and the feeling of myself within me. In a wider sense we play this key role, and instead of having experienced this truthfully i always kept it for myself. Its a possibility i wouldn't want to rule out. It feels like there is a big blurred out part of myself stuck in my subconcious. Atleast i found out about it and see the issue clearly. Im already working on finding connection and have people that would like to help me in this regard. This may is a topic for in itself.
Only then i can clearly say yep, there is a specific task for me, but everything im thinking of now could turn out to be a trick of my rational mind trying to integrate the irrational and im just a rather sensitive person.



Im on it im trying this step my step attempt, getting out of my comfort zone.

Definitely sound ethos. However I don't mean that I prefer to avoid doing all things or avoid any kind of success. Within my shell I fall from the sky 20-30 times a week, I build with wood, craft with metal, have healthy relationships with a small amount of choice humans and by far the most important, feed and shelter a small family of the very best humans.

When I say I avoid the chance to play a key role I refer to going out and making a difference to humanity and this planet as a whole. I thought that was where the OP was looking. That feeling of avoidance pertains to a much higher purpose than my own personal success or failure.

In summary, many aspects of the world seem to be in a bad state and in the big picture sense I am hiding from that issue.

Sounds like you are already making the world a better place.

Do you have a more concrete sense of what is it that you are avoiding?
Do you feel a responsibility or desire to heal the planet?

Hey bIRD_
Your OP is hinting at some insight related to non dualism. Id offer that your question may be the wrong question for your goal of understanding. Before understanding how best to be in the world and “your” relationship with “it”, I have found that the question of what our essential nature is - and secondly what the essential nature of all experience is - must be understood and eventually felt as your normal disposition.

Trips can be an important opener but the close inspection Of what am I essentially needs to permeate your everyday understanding before one can ask the question about your role and relation to an outside world.

Non duality, and the perennially philosophy within the religions and spiritual traditions, point to a correction in out understanding of what we are. If we believe our dominant conditioning that we are products of a particular configuration of dead stuff called matter we will worry and suffer and ask questions about how we can do things to resolve that situation. But only if we honestly challenge that foundational supposition of materialism can we find peace.

Depending on your disposition you may approach the question rationally through experiments and observation - like what about me never changes? (Being/is was and awareness/knowingness). Or if your more heart centered, devotion and right action (helping others without a personal agenda) can be pathways.

Keep going. Keep looking. Keep reflecting. Always ask if the current question is the deepest and if there are any deeper assumptions that can be tested.

Peace

This pairs up well with my latest experiences, i feel like im not in the position to assume my role in all of this as im not even taking one right now. Thanks for your insights.

Related to this is the question that what is the proper ratio of striving vs accepting. When is the right time to act and how much effort you should put into your deeds compared to waiting for the circumstances to be right. In Daoism there is the concept of Wu wei the effortless action. I'm fascinated by the idea but have very superficial understanding of it.

The idea that I could be more and should be more can be debilitating. Still having dreams can lead to change.

Any thoughts appreciated.

I think that finding such a ratio is a moving target. If change is constant, than such a ratio will change, predicated on other changes. I think it's about finding a manner of deep fundamental awareness that allows us to be aware of when to strive and when to accept.

I've been very inward lately, and have noticed that when such an impetus has plagued me it also becomes a narrative that I attach to, which then such an attachment is the source of my suffering. I'm attempting to always strive to grow and be be better but am making a lot less of a big deal out of it. I'm learning it may be more about what we embody that leads to what we do more than just what we feel we should do. That's not to say we should try and work hard, but too much and too hard a detrimental things for our goals and purposes.

I think many of us also don't realize the fascinating impacts we've already had. Tomtegubbe, you've been a part of my growth for certain, as have several others of you. You've somewhat fulfilled aspects of your goals in me, and I have tremendous love for you for that.

For me, these matters are more revolving around simply and complexly, balance. A sense that also embraces and employs paradox.

One love

Kind of you to say that. In my 20s while deep into a cannabis addiction I would be so stoned so professionally for years at a time. I felt something like what you ask. I remember feeling all the pain and suffering and oppression of the human race, like I had tapped into some global emotional well. I was pretty high. I never really tried to fix any of it outside my own little bubble. The internet has helped us reach further to each other which has helped me feel I have at least the opportunity to impact positively.

Other than sometimes trying to make other lifeforms happier I have not put much effort into improving this scenario we find ourselves in on this rock.

Mostly everything I am avoiding is ego driven anyway. My way would work. My ideas are worth listening to. My plans would make everything better. People should listen to me.

Some humans do follow that ego driven desire to make people see a better way... and do sometimes make a difference. Then we burn them or nail them to the wall. No one likes a smart arse.

Are you pigeonholing yourself a bit here? Do you think these things are so, or do you hope they are so? Eg, do you feel your way would definitely work, or do you hope your way would work?

I think there's an important difference with regard to ego here and is why I ask.

One love

The ego knows the plan would work and that the ideas are correct. Nature contests that the ego has not enough perspectives to ever make such a claim.

So, back to the shell of obscurity...hello old friend.

You know my skeptical and aligns quite a bit with nature on this one

Anyway,do you feel that this perspective and being in the shell is a strategy you employ for keeping your ego in check?

One love

Quite the opposite. The shell acts more as a nurturing environment for the ego to flourish in stark denial of the larger picture. To leave the shell and make real change requires sacrifice that the ego is not willing to accept.

Justifications include the excuse that other, less polluted egos depend on this ego doing it's job as a part of this superficial realm. They deserve a chance at developing an ego from a stable environment even if they should choose later to attempt to discard said ego.

Just some reflection on it all...

At a party once, over-heard a conversation between 2 trippers... One said "You aren't special because you took a drug. Anyone with $10 can take a drug and feel like a god"

A family member who is a psychiatrist likes to say "Most all important and influential people people in the world can smell an idea-man from a mile away, and steer clear from them. Having ideas doesn't make you special, valuable, or important... everyone has ideas. It's your ability to enact them into something tangible, consistently over a long period of time, that offers the opportunity to succeed or bring about change"

IMO that's part of the truth and gift of psychedelics. That yes they can show you how the world should be better, how if motivated enough you COULD make that happen if you played your cards right. But also, anyone with $10 can get the same insight. Having the vision, knowledge, and wisdom of the psychedelic doesn't make you the messiah.

It's a gift and insight that's there for anyone willing to ingest these things... but where the rubber meets the road, is in what ways are you qualified or even capable of doing anything about it? Many can 'see' the way, few can follow it.

Can be a homeless dude, unable to hold a job, barely surviving, but feel like Jesus because you took some acid and 'figured it all out' and feel compelled to 'change the world if people only listened to me and the ideas I had while tripping'

Developing a solid base in foundational life skills becomes critical. Having goals for ones self, short, midterm and long term goals, working towards them every day. Having some sort of consistent discipline over a long period of time, be it health, diet, fitness, meditation/yoga practice, working long hours with proper focus to accomplish something.

If you actually develop the skills to propagate change, then MAYBE you can become capable of fulfilling some of the visions you have on psychedelics.

Until then, IMO, its a very slippery slope to think one is somehow special, significant, or more empowered then others to be a leader/changer... simply because they took a drug.