I mean eating the mushrooms.

Sure personal psychlogy will always play a role in the experience..but thats not really my point..

Look at it this way..you can go to the park, and there can be other people at that same park. Your personal psychological makeup isnt going to change the fact that everyone at that park saw what that park looked like..you all see the same trees, the same birds etc..

Now maybe you dont like going to the park becasue its raining or snowing and its too hot out for you or you just hate nature, whatever..yet the next guy could love it for whatever reason...the way you RESPOND to the experience while having it is what will be effected by your persoanly psychology.

Now durring a psychedelic journey..things may come up from your past etc..I have had visions of a certain person that I know come up 3 times with bufotenine now, but still the realm that this happens in is extremely mayan ans chavin looking..I am sure that the incas do not see her in theyre visions as well when they take vilca!..but the overall landscape of the place is still extremely similar and unique to bufotenine..we call it bufotenine space becase thats what it is..it is uniqe to bufotenine and always will be.

Interesting, i really must try this molecule so I can either make my beliefs stronger or change them in either case make them stronger

You both have equally plausible points no need to get testy. The truth is very likely a combination of both. The more I think about it the more certain it seems.

Our subconscious and conscious ideas definitely influence what we see and our trip is certainly affected by our wishes and preconceptions about the experience. That said, the pharmacological differences from drug to drug cause each one to have very distinct stylistic characteristics visually speaking. Both these facts are pretty much undeniable.

The idea that psilocin and DMT may have the tendency to produce a certain kind of visuals and that this influenced the development of Mayan art is a valid point and may or not be true. You cannot prove it but it is certainly a possibility. That said, it works both ways. You could easily predispose yourself to seeing these type of visuals if you believe that you will before the trip and this can perpetuate itself.

I personally have experienced Mayan type visuals on LSD and DMT but never on mushrooms. I actually tend to get more hindu type imagery on psilocin (4-ho-dmt = mushrooms) while on psilacetin (4-aco-dmt) I have very organic visuals as If I'm looking at the microcellular structures of some complex being.

Although each chemical has its own unique signature of texture, palette, and geometry, there is still an incredible amount of variation within each type and I am constantly experiencing novel imagery that has a lot of variation. AT high enough doses you can have a very large degree of control over what you see. What is experienced is a combination of unconscious and conscious processes meshing together. By no means does mushrooms consistently produce Mayan type visuals in everyone who takes them. The fact that you do experience is consistently suggests that you are unconsciously predisposing your trips to continue experiencing similar motifs because you have come to expect that.

Well see i experienced it FIRST with mushrooms, then later saw mayan artwork, and hindu and buddhist mandalas and instantly knew that i had seen that before in my mushrooms trips..

I mean..are you going to tell me you dont see mandalas when you take psychedelics?..thats what all that artwork is about..the only thing that makes any sense to me is that these people saw these things as well and thats why they made that art..Noone here has given any other explanation at all to why they might have artwork like that if its not what they were seeing..if anyone has one id love to hear it..I just cant really see them making all this stuff up and then by coincidence people ingest these tryptamines,the same ones that the mayans were ingesting and then see this stuff..

Take salvia for instance..why do you think people came up with terms like the "zipper"??..they did that becasue sooo many people were experiencing that when they took salvia, becasue its a part of it pharmacological profile of effects..it has nothing to do at all with personal psychology..everyone i have given the stuff to has that trip eventaully weather they have heard about it or not...

Its the same way with how people get the tryptamine yawns and runny nose when they ingest psilocybin and psilocin...its just a universal part of the experience.

Heres another example..look at the mayans, the aztecs, the incas, the chavin...all these peoples have very very similar artwork..all of them were taking similar substances if not the same substances as well..and the art work and pottery etc they made all reflects that...sure they might have have been influenced by each culture at some level as well..the mayans adn the aztecs were close to each other and the incas and chavin were close to eachother..but even among the chavin and the aztecs there are disticnt similarities that point to an pharacological influence..

I really think that people are taking the idea of seeing something and then it programming the trip way too far..i mean, Iwatch science fiction shows on tv all the time..then i take psychedelic tryptamines right after..so why dont i see images from those shows in my visions?..something there doesnt add up..

smoke enough and you wont even know what a book is, was.

I've given this a lot of thought, as I was turned onto the Strassman book through a convo about DMT.

I read the book twice before I actually had any experience with the spirit molecule, and let me say that its not a verbatim reference manual for how to have fun.

The stories in that book are taken from experiments designed to test the threshold of DMT on the human mind. The amount of DMT administered in those tests was enormous for the most part, and trying to cope with a semi-breakthrough can be difficult enough let alone being thrust out into hyperspace as a pioneer.
I mean when it comes down to it, what happens on a DMT trip may very well change your entire life, so as far as trying to describe what THAT is like to someone for the purposes of medical science, well you're either going to try it for yourself or never really know, and I stress the word Real in knowing.

So yeah Buy The Spirit Molecule, watch the movie borrow it from a friend and never return it, hell I dunno...just don't get caught up in the celebrity appearance of DMT I mean there's always time to smoke it!

I haven't read that one of Leary's yet but I think the other two were great. I'd recommend those books to anyone even remotely interested in psychedelics.. and actually even those who aren't at all.

""inner paths to outer space" is another terrible book that will just try and mold the way your mind and soul function on psychedelics.
same with learys "the psychedelic experience"."
"i suppose my point is, i find it almost insulting that "authorities" on psychedelics would even consider attempting to write a "spiritual" guide to psychedelics."

Beleifs can greatly limit experience and narrow your reality. On drugs or not.
I don't think the authors are trying to mold your psychology or psychedelic experiences and they're certainly not asking you to beleive with boundless faith all the information they present. They're scientists who have researched shamanic experiences extensively and are sharing their ideas and information regarding psychedelic states... which is something I think we could do alot more of in the scientific community. It's not a religious doctrine to the psychedelic experience, so please, stop acting like it is. Obviously your personal psyche plays a role in the trip, but the fact is you don't have to beleive or read any of the literature or trip reports to experience the places psychedelics can land you.

I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but If you really are a drug addict as you say you are i truly hope you'll consider trying to sober up for a while and get your mind together before having another go at it. You can learn alot more with a clear head my friend!

Definitely agree with ^^

The Psychedelic Experience says very clearly, the authors intended it as a guide to creating one particular type of experience through set and setting. They never say one shouldn't have other experiences with psychedelics. Leary went on to write manuals for creating other types of experiences as well (Psychedelic Prayers presents an experiment for creating a Taoist psychedelic experience). I always read them as tutorials, to help get your feet wet in a structured/responsible manner; approach them as toolboxes and they have so much to teach you.

Still haven't read Inner Paths... hopefully soon!

I have to agree with Fractal Enchantment on this one. A good book on the subject is "Supernatural" by Graham Hancock.

He actually shows that the same experiences come up all over the world whether the subjects have heard of it before or not... Sometimes the context might be a little different but the core of the experience is always there.

i thought the spirit molecule was an excellent book, because it's very honest. Strassman didn't know what to expect and the ending of the book makes you think... cause there is no final conclusion made about the experience, as the subjects each have very different feelings towards the experience. And maybe that is exactly where your personal thoughts make the difference.

Before my last mushroom experience I had this idea about the electronic mushroom. So during the trip i asked the mushroom to show me the electronic experience and the electronic mushroom. Of course the mushroom responded, showing me strange machinery and cables intertwining, very weird stuff, but all of this was incorporated in the "mushroom world" which i couldn't control. Therefor it is a mix of the two, with a common base for all of humans, whether aboriginal or western.

Peace
Elpo

My tip to the OP is to read more books, all kinds with differnet prespectives on different topics.

For me personally nothing can color a trip before I take off - despite best intentions. I never know what to expect and really don't bother trying to.

If this were all subjective and influenced by the outside then wouldn't I believe and actually have horrible trips just like everyone (governement, church, school, media, etc..) tells me should happen?:evil:

My frame of mind can influence my interpretation and how I feel about the whole trip - integration etc... but in no way have I been able to influence the actual visions.

Good point. Books and speakers on psychedelics can change your psyche in a lot of ways...but they aren't out there to mold your psyche or dictate the content of the trip to a certain type of experience... I think most actually intend on doing the opposite, like showing you the HUGE range of experiences that are possible.

I still think your frame of mind influences the trip though, and beyond simply your interpretation of its meaning. I think thoughts/feelings/emotions/expectations/intent- the state of your soul- can influence the visions in a very noticeable way at times, at least for me. Hyperspace and entities seem to react to the vibrations your giving off during the experience.

You have to believe you can influence the visions to actually be able to do it.

Haven't read this whole thread, but SWIM was familiar with most of the literature and popular perception of DMT prior to using it, but he remained skeptical. When he did it, he found that though his visions shared common elements as were described by others, he found such descriptions to be vastly oversimplified by the conventions of language and culture--partly on the part of the individual but also that of culture at large. One thing SWIM's always found intriguing about Terence McKenna's accounts is that he always seems a bit shaken and unsure of his accounts, and that he takes playful liberties in his attempts to convey his experiences linguistically. While Terence's accounts aren't any more accurate in terms of the individual's experience than those of "The Spirit Molecule," they do so a bit more artfully and honestly in he fills in the gaps a bit less rigidly, but that's not so much to the discredit of the book as to the credit of McKenna's artistic abilities.

In short, when considering others' accounts of the experience, consider them comprehensively but with a grain of salt. They can't simply predetermine your experience, but if let them, they can possibly influence how you speak and think about it.

I can't believe I've somehow missed this thread until now...

OP - With all due respect, this sounds like a personal problem. Myself, I wouldn't be here if not for Strassman and his book, and I know that's true for many others. That isn't to say that The Spirit Molecule is any more effective than anything else in linguistically capturing the experience, but it did inspire me to take the leap and investigate for myself. Regardless, I don't really get the impassioned plea for others not to read it. It's a straightforward accounting of clinical trials. That's what it was intended to be.

Whatever I'm reading at any given time (assuming I'm immersed and captivated) - whether it's The Spirit Molecule, or Dostoevsky, or the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue - is going to alter my perception. It affects to one degree or another how I view the world - how I process language, the pantameter of my speech, etc. etc. etc. But if you are consciously (or otherwise) looking for snippets from a book while under the influence, I respectfully submit the possibility that you've simply underdosed - because a deeper journey just won't allow for any such kind of imprinting. Whether the space itself is a deeply encoded rorshach test or independent reality is anybody's guess - but the most fascinating thing about DMT is how COMPLETELY UNdriven by personality (and personal experience and personal belief systems) the experience presents.

I do believe we are all likely seeing many common elements - it's the same chemical acting upon the same basic human nervous system after all. What differs, more likely, is our individual interpretations - which might explain how one experience can be horrifying and the next one completely ecstatic, or how one can vassilate between both extremes seemingly from second to second. It often feels to me in that moment when I've undergone such a shift, that my environment itself has not actually changed, but rather my point of view.

I think it's important to keep in mind that any linguistic or artistic attempt to translate the experience is only a symbolic representation - and a symbol, no matter how elequently crafted, can never be the thing itself. The Thing, in this case, is just too complex a thing to accurately recapture - except in the broadest metaphorical terms. The reports in that book are no closer to my own experience than are Terrence McKenna's, or Daniel Pinchbeck's, or any trip report found here or anywhere. There are common elements in all of them, to be sure - little hand holds of recognition - but where I go cannot be translated - not in words, not in images, not even in my own limited imagination afterwards. The only accurate view is first hand - within the moment of the experience.

As for Timothy Leary and the crash and burn of the hippy movement, I can't really say - it wasn't my epoch and I wasn't there. I can tell you with a fair amount of certainty that Johnny Depp didn't write Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. But feel free to double check my information - you should be able to find it on the interweb.

Now...

Morphane - I just LOVE, LOVE, LOVE how once again - without the benefit of actually having had it yourself - you've managed to break down the psychedelic experience in such astute and poetic detail. You should really write the definitive text... Or wait a second... maybe you shouldn't. Perhaps you should steer clear of spouting off with declaritive statements based on NOTHING other than your own conjecture. Perhaps you should put your money where your mouth is and your convictions to the test. Perhaps you're just a guy who's in love with the smell of his own flatulent ramblings. Whatever the case, I'm here to tell you that YOU ARE AN INSUFFERABLE WINDBAG - and unless you are prepared to actually see the inside of the rabbit hole yourself, you have no business breaking down what is "clear" about anything to anyone.

thank you art! listen to this man!^

Yes, thank you! Beautifully written, as always!

Pokey

My view: knowledge doesn't affect the trip, but it does help you recognize things. Something intrinsic to the drug makes you see those patterns which you more easily recognize as previously described characters (jesters, etc.) because of your reading experience.

Seems a lot of people think this way also. This convinces me further.

When I first began to take my journeys I was extremely cautious not to read any accounts of experiences as it might color my experiences. After a few journeys I chose to then read others accounts to try to compare them with my own. I found they were remarkedly similar. There is a inherent pattern with the journey that is universal to everyone although there is also a very very distinct uniqueness to it as well that makes one persons journey diffrent than others. The big picture/ general pattern is the same it's the details that tend to be unique to the individual.

The human brain is the same regardless of the individual. So it will react to a chemical in the same general manner. However how the brain is wired and how it perceives it's world is entirely unique to the individual. We are a product of our experiences and how we perceive our world is filtered thru these experiences. Thus the reason that I personally believe having as much diversity in life experiences as possible is the key to evolution of conciousness ans it allows one to draw from that experience.

As far as straussman. Keep in mind he is a doctor and has to keep his credibility. Dabbling in this kind of research is dangerous for a career. Back when he wrote his book there was very little documentation on DMT in any way so anything was well accepted and of value to some degree. Today there is plenty on the net that one can read from.