DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 267 Joined: 14-Dec-2018 Last visit: 14-Apr-2024
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In the FASA extraction method both citric and fumaric acid are dissolved in acetone at some point. In the FASA freebase-to-fumarate conversion method both DMT and fumaric acid are dissolved in acetone.
Do any chemists here know if the acids and/or DMT create acidic or basic environments and cause an aldol reaction in the acetone? If so, I wonder if that creates any yield or purity issues?
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analytical chemist
  
Posts: 7463 Joined: 21-May-2008 Last visit: 14-Jan-2025 Location: the lab
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not that I've seen. benzyme attached the following image(s):  fumarate.jpg (100kb) downloaded 62 time(s)."Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 267 Joined: 14-Dec-2018 Last visit: 14-Apr-2024
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Thanks benzyme!
FYI, the reason I asked is that the use of molecular sieves is discouraged for acetone drying as they are slightly basic ( search the web for "acetone and molecular sieves", multiple authors ) .
My assumption is that anything acidic or basic in acetone, including fumaric acid and freebase DMT, will catalyze the self-condensation, contaminating the acetone with byproducts and increasing its water content. I do not know how fast aldol self-condensation goes though - if it takes days or months, then perhaps it is immaterial. Regardless, adding freebase DMT and fumaric acid to acetone together - to keep the solution neutral - suddenly does not seem like a bad idea?
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analytical chemist
Posts: 7463 Joined: 21-May-2008 Last visit: 14-Jan-2025 Location: the lab
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tbh, I don't think it really matters. there isn't alot of acid dissociation to begin with, and rxn kinetics don't favor side reactions. This is why I run LCMS on everything. Theory doesn't necessarily carry any weight, without empirical evidence. "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
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Boundary condition
Posts: 8617 Joined: 30-Aug-2008 Last visit: 07-Nov-2024 Location: square root of minus one
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Molecular sieves provide a surface for the catalysis as well; this most probably makes a significant difference. Otherwise, condensation only occurs with stronger acids at higher temperatures. (I've probably overstated concerns about acetone condensation in the past, tbh.) “There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work." ― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 2 Joined: 28-Jul-2022 Last visit: 18-Aug-2022 Location: Somewhere in the universe
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I too have had concerns about the aldol condensation of acetone. Primarily acetone that was made anhydrous via MgSO4.
So even if aldol condensation did occur, does this actually effect this FASA process? I don't understand the mechanism of action but I feel like acetone with aldol condensation would still work for a lot of uses?
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