Just add a product called DONATION to the BBB site with different donation amount options like $1, $10, $100, $1000, $10,000, $100,000, etc., and let people order as many as they want. That's simple enough. You just add the product to the product database. No special coding is needed. If I see that on BBB I’ll order as many as I can afford RIGHT NOW.

Great idea!
Thanks.

It's coming.

Along with Google Donate Now buttons.

Agreed, i would gladly donate, but am unsure of the validity of TheGuy being who he says he is., no offense it just seems like a great time for the FDA to raise some extra cash by going around saying they are you and need money... or anyone else for that matter.

patiently waiting for said donate now button.

Good call (not sure of the possibility of FDA involvement, but still a risk all the same).


We need official channels here and possibly face-time, if you would, sir.

I don't think you guys need to worry about TheGuy being who he says he is. The account of that name on DancingBear is clearly Jon's father, he was linked here from that forum, and his posting style here is perfectly consistent with his posts over there. Waiting until the donate buttons are up on BBB isn't going to hurt anything, but I do think it's unnecessary paranoia.



I do feel very bad about the situation that Jon is in, since I do believe these plants should be legal... but there are aspects of his situation that I find very concerning. This was a very foreseeable eventuality. As little as we like it, these plants are not currently legal to possess, cultivate, or distribute in the US (at least not by anyone who is aware of the alkaloids they contain). Jon had to have known that, as it would be unbelievably reckless to sell products without considering their legal status (similarly, anyone who ordered these plants without realizing that they were ordering Schedule I materials is guilty of not doing their homework!). I don't disapprove of people ordering or selling these things, as I feel the law is unjust and I approve of people flouting unjust laws... but they should be aware of the consequences, especially when dealing in such massive quantities.... and aware suffering those consequences is nearly inevitable when you start advertising on sites such as youtube.

I can't possibly imagine why Jon hadn't set up funds to support his family in case of this eventuality (in offshore accounts, or a floor-bolted safe in his parents house, etc.). Likewise I can't possibly imagine why he didn't already have a lawyer on retainer with funds tucked away offshore to handle the case fees, and a legal strategy already in place.

Some of you are saying that this is where we make our stand... if that's the case, our money would be better spent bribing the prosecution to make procedural errors so Jon has grounds to appeal the inevitable guilty verdicts of the lower courts. The sad reality of the situation is that this case can't possibly win outside of the Supreme Court, for a very simple reason: The plants are not currently legal. Of course we all know how absolutely asinine the law is... under the same law, a pet shop owner trading in dogs or mice or other mammals could be arrested if he's aware that they produce DMT endogenously. But the courts don't care about hypotheticals. Jon's defense can claim the CSA is unconstitutionally vague until the cows come home, but none of the lower courts are going to accept that argument, because the Supreme Court of the United States has heard drug cases before, and implicitly upheld the constitutionality of the legislation.

I hate to be a doomsayer, but this case looks very bleak. Bleak for Jon, and bleak for the entheogen community. Is this really how we have to make our stand? In a state where the courts are going to be entirely unreceptive to our cause (even Texas thinks Kansas is backward!), with a defendant who is apparently completely unaware that he was selling materials that are explicitly considered scheduled by federal and state legislation, with the only real hope of winning being numerous successful appeals?

While a stand needed to be made, I can't say that I like the terms on which our hand is being forced.

Unfortunately, Jon didn't seem to think like a criminal and make preparations for his eventual arrest, as he didn't believe himself to be and rightfully so. Now he's standing on the brink of a huge paradigm shift where either his case is made and wins a huge victory for all of us, or he's shot down and it's a big loss for everyone that can only serve to escalate the drug war. Can this country really sustain policy of perpetually expanding prohibition, let alone enforce it? The night is darkest just before the dawn.

I disagree with that last clause: "and rightfully so". It simply isn't true, no matter how much we all know that it should be. Read the Controlled Substances Act. It's as plain as day that MHRB, san pedro, and all those things are in the exact same legal class as Psilocybe cubensis or any other psilocybian mushroom.

The only thing that BBB and the other ethno vendors had going for them was the fact that the authorities had decided to turn a blind eye to the illegal parts of the ethno trade. In an effort to maintain that situation, most of the vendors kept pretty low-key about it.... but not Jon. I know multiple people personally reached out to Jon and warned him that this was going to happen when he started teaming up with Neurosoup. Jon was unconcerned, apparently to the point that he didn't make any preparations for this inevitable eventuality. It may sound callous, but he made his bed, and now he's lying in it.

If Jon was really fighting for the liberty of the whole ethno community, as his father has claimed, then he would have been prepared. He wouldn't have screwed the whole community by forcing us to take our stand on nearly unwinnable terrain.



For what it's worth, Jon's lawyer might want to cite the 1978 case Fiske v Florida as precedent (I believe it's the only case in US history where psilocybian mushrooms weren't considered to be containers of psilocybin/psilocin), though I don't know what good it will do without plausible deniability regarding Jon's knowledge of the alkaloids in his merchandise... A Kansas court has already ruled on the relevance of the Fiske case in situations such as this in the 1985 case State v Justice, establishing "Florida's Fiske only applied where there was no knowlege of illegal conduct"... essentially confirming the requirement of scienter.

Awwww jeez, really? Neurosoup? Fuckin Neurosoup?!?!?!?!! When did THAT start happening? I'm probably wrong, but given her connection and what happened with Pickard and Aperson this give me bad vibes all around...

I'm really not disagreeing with you on that point, Entropymancer. I only mean in the sense that the laws are criminal, was he right. Perhaps I under-emphasize the unfortunate negligence of his ill-preparedness, but how long could this have really gone on otherwise, and how much more prepared could we have been? A year earlier may have been much worse, but would a year or so later have been much better? Hard to say, as stagnation may have set in for the community given enough time, but this is happening now. I feel ready for this.

Certainly he wasn't intending to fight this fight, but now he has to. His case is only the beginning, anyway.

Yeah I feel the same way, shes been promoting BBB for awhile now. BBB didnt need to get involved with NS to get more customers. I always felt this was a bad look, to have her spout off about her "trips" and than say click the link to go buy some plants. Also that manifesting the mind movie was pretty much promoting shamanism, and being funded by BBB this could of sent the wrong message.

I just went to look at the BBB site to see if a donation option was added. None is there yet.

I am greatly saddened. I scrolled through the products. I looked at the ayahuasca section. I see the "OUT OF STOCK" message all over the place there.

BBB was doing a great service to the people, and now they are greatly crippled by the heartless FDA.

I'm sad. I can't help it. My anger over this is gone and I feel such a great loss.

If any of the FDA officials are reading this, the rest of this post is for you:



With that, I go to sleep.

I think this is over the line. I can only assume this is a purposeful gross exaggeration? "I hope God punishes you... I would give you life in prison... You are like Hitler in our eyes..."

What happened here? I dont agree with the situation BBB have found themselves in, but this is way too far for me. I wouldn't put things like this in the ELF writings. If we do, you wont be taken seriously and I want nothing to do with it.

I / we have an alternative view, but many people, even if misguided, would not want their sons / daughters etc taking DMT. My parents included. They would therefore be on the side of "the law". Should they be punished by God as well?

First of all i think kids should be left out of the picture all together, parents don't want there kids drinking alcohol or smoking either, it can effect growth both physically and mentally. Kids don't have freedom until there adults, there are many legal things there parents don't want them to do, so you can't base something on....is it safe for my kids?

Onto adults, its one big problem for anyone to say, i don't think this person should be able to do this*(within reason/like directly affecting others[Murder, stealing...])....lets make it illegal to protect people. Thats basically saying that a group of people can review and determine what someone should do with there life, like there special and they know the right way to live and have the right to force there opinion onto others. I see no difference in this and trying to force people to believe in god, its not up to others how you live your life, and everyone has the equal right to live there own life, believe what they want, take what they want, even end there life if they want....its your life, not theres.

They should not be punished, they should have there ability to make decisions for others taken away.

I'm 29. I am still my parents son. Replace "son / daughter" with "loved one" if it makes you happier. Age is irrelevant, (although I am sure the fact that BBB products may be obtainable by teens will be brought up at trial) what I was getting at is that there are many people who do not share our opinion on these matters. And that is all it is folks, an opinion. Once we start dealing in absolutes - saying we are right, they are wrong, and should be punished etc. we are no better than them.

Your view on freedoms / rights etc, which I sympathise with, was not my issue Cheeto. I don't think saying these people are like Hitler / need to be punished etc. is tactful or progressive. Not to mention it being insulting and arrogant IMO.

I agree that comparing them to Hitler is unfounded exaggeration. There's a difference between arresting/incarcerating peoople vs. rounding people up and putting them in death camps. If the opposition invoked Godwin's law, our cause is finished!

But it is fair to say that they are bigots, plain and simple. No one has any right to tell me what I can or can't put in my own body. The fact that they want to imprison people for committing victimless crimes is unforgivably arrogant, and if there is a god, these people will have to answer to him for their crimes against basic human liberties.

Guys, that Modern American Shaman (he didn’t want his other forum name re-posted) is responsible for those words, not me. While quite harsh, I thought it would be a good idea to let the FDA see just how sick they now look to some people. He’s comparing them to Hitler. That’s a rather harsh comparison, but I think it gets the point across by being so harsh.

Well, seeing how you even get compared to hitler, just by allowing others to think of a good way to make everybody have acces to good healthcare, the comparison is a bit deflated these days.

The comparison to hitler may be innapropriate in some perspectives but it IS apropriate in the sense that this is an attempt, tough destined to fail, to eradicate a culture.

The fear for psychedelic's is clearly based upon the fear for a counterculture, undergound movements, alternative lifestyle's.

The comparison to china's way of aproaching falung gong adn other religious movements is maybe more apropriate.

In the end it IS about freedom of religion.

For Modern American Shaman (he doesn’t want his name given), you must understand that from his view, this is not harsh. He is a Native American who lost his culture because of these kinds of people. He told me horrible stories from his grandfather about how badly treated his people were in the US. Many were murdered by the "Authorities". Now they arrest their people instead of murder them. But it’s still the same kind of oppression.

Modern American Shaman has been arrested for practicing peyotism off of the reservation. He lives in California where his rights are not properly protected. He was re-introduced to entheogens via BBB and got back in touch with his native roots because of BBB.

I think the story is rather touching. I like that he, like me, was also previously an atheist. He’s thankful to BBB for supporting his heritage and allowing him to access entheogens at a time when he could not by any other means. He’s now a member of the NAS, but they are still apparently persecuted in some areas in the US. It is a sad reality.

If you look into US history, you'll see that the US murdered thousands of Native Americans, so while Modern American Shaman's words might sound harsh to you or I, I can see how they don't to him. This is all part of an ongoing oppression of his people. They aim to exterminate his culture so I can understand his rage. For him it's like seeing old war criminals still in action.

I sympathise with that 69ron, I really do, there are plenty of cultures that have suffered at the hands of the western world, and it is shameful. I know it was not your post, but I still do not think that attitude is OK. Nobody is going to answer to God, or be punished by God, for anything, ever.

The times I have felt Gods presence, the experience has been full of endless compassion, ultimate bliss and limitless love. If these amazing substances have taught me anything it is to realise that these things apply to everything and everyone, all the time. Any judgements we make just separate us from that, and blind us from this truth. I thought the Nexus, at its heart, was all about those feelings and all about taking what we learn from psy's back to the "real world".

IMO if we are going to get these things legal, it is not by attacking people in this way. I don't have the answers, but this just struck me as an eye for an eye, and an unconstructive post. Sorry.

To me, it sounds like BBB got a bit too big and bold. The authorities probably saw what happened with salvia being on youtube and thought a lot of these substances would go the same (popular) way rather than just be in the hands of a few. The authorities represent the popular view. Our job should be to change that popular view, not attack the FDA, FBI, DEA or whoever else we want to blame.

It's all good though man. With much, much love.

Or more often than not, a popular lack thereof, but it still amounts to the same effect. The greatest difficulty is in getting people to think, rather than to change the way they think. The apathetic represents a much greater majority than the opposition, but the opposition are ruthless in their exploitation of this.