LSD will likely follow, but should largely be left in the hands of doctors and scientists to pioneer. It's really their gift to us, after all.

Pause to imagine all the progress that could be made from an outrageously positive outcome.

This BULLSHIT could just be FERTILIZER that we can use to plant a REAL, LIVING community that will FLOWER!!

....

/hippy cheerleading

If I were to testify in favor of us, I would speak truthfully about the very real self-empowerment that has changed my life, blessings of Ayahuasca.

Interesting this happened after the development of the d-limo techs...

I think its about the legalization of all psychedelics.
I don't know if <all drugs> is possible, which I personally think is the right thing to do. In any case we are against the economic interests of some very very rich people, like The Christian Church, the DEA, Big Pharma, International Narcs and even Media Corporations. It comes down to something like "THE MONEY VS THE PSYCHEDELICS".

Or at least that's what it seems to me. Several Institutions will lose billions of dollars if psychedelics become available in the mainstream.
On the other hand, it seems that if legalization of psychedelics doesn't happen soon, humanity will fuck up big time.

We are truly in critical times. We better start making the right decisions, but believe me, Money and Control is not something easy to defeat.

Why would the big corporations be against legalization if they could market their own psychedelics and take their share in the profits?

Well, at this point of the conversation we are assuming a lot of things would be possible like "recreational use" or "buying / selling".

But I think, (and I believe most people here would agree), if psychedelics become legal The System would change radically.
For instance, I imagine that in a "psychedelic world" a lot of less petroleum would be used and that religious fundamentalist churches would slowly disappear... maybe there wouldn't be political boundaries between countries and poverty would be solved not instantly but progressively and effectively. I believe there would be a passion for Eco-friendly technologies and that some serious psytrance raves would be happening. People would be more happy with their lives... causing them to consume less.
Empathy for our fellow human brothers and sisters would rise, people would search for quality instead of swallowing whatever The System wants you to buy buy buy. Death would be respected not feared and Life would be honored not wasted.

Stuff like that... that is pretty hippie yes... but nonetheless better, both for our world and ourselves, and not so good for the Moneymakers.

Companies are not fond of changing their business plans. There would be business opportunities if psychedelics became legal, but it would most likely not be the big businesses that exist now that start them. Psychedelics can kill addiction after one use, so cigarette companies and alcohol companies will clearly not be a fan of the idea. As clouds pointed out, psychedelics would literally bring about a strong cultural change. Part of that change would lean towards environmentalism, and even liberalism in general. There are countless organizations, including every oil company, that will not want that. Pharmaceutical companies might not like the idea... but maybe they could be convinced. They are the ones that could easily profit off of psychedelics. Then again, the number of ailments that psychedelics have potential to treat might actually make them lose profits in the end, especially since they are easier to produce, require smaller doses, and aren't a lifetime-prescription. Still, there would be some smaller pharmaceutical companies that would look to psychedelics as a profitable business idea: the ones that don't have any stock in the medicine that they would replace.

Honestly, I think the best first step is not a legal one. We have to change the MASS public opinion of the drugs. We have to not only make them aware of the medicinal benefits, but also make people aware of the experiences itself. That doesn't mean just talking about it. Very few people can relate to the experience without actually having it. Until people have that experience, they probably will be against use of the sacraments anyways... and why wouldn't they be? They can't possibly comprehend the benefits.

The people who stand to gain the most from psychedelics, at least initially, are drug addicts. There's no legal way to start treating them, obviously, but addressing that issue would be the best way to change public opinion.

appreciate those sentiments. But, I can assure you that Bouncing Bear Botanicals never posted those things.
In fact, BBB continually had mini-wars with people that did those type of things, and many, many times ask posters like that to remove their videos. Those type of videos generally come from sincere, but naive people. They think they are doing a good thing, but.... we know better.

I just wanted to clear that up first. I have the inside knowledge of this because I'm Jon's dad. I work for Jon. I work at Bouncing Bear Botanicals. Jon owns Bouncing Bear, and is the guy the federal thugs decided to make a case of.

They put a $900,000 drug TAX on his head, seized all of his assets, bank accounts, property and even stole his six year old son's savings account. Their goal, obviously, was to make it impossible for him to mount any kind of defense. But, they were wrong. We will fight these ridiculous, illegal charges all the way to the supreme court.
I was there during the raid. 24 armed thugs busted in with guns drawn and handcuffed the entire staff including little white haird grandmas, and single moms with children at home.
Please visit this page to see what it was like after they left. I took the pictures with my cell phone:
http://www.bouncingbearb..._the_feds_did_to_jon.htm

This drug tax itself is unconstitutional. And I'll post more about that later. But, it effectively makes it possible for the feds to steal all of your assets so that you can't defend yourself, can't post bond, can't hire an attorney and thus... will wind up accepting a plea bargain, spend 15 years in prison, and the DA gets a gold star, the DEA gets an award and all the politicians get re-elected for "saving our children" from this horrible thing called "drugs."
It is all bogus, unconstitutional and it is time we started to fight back.

The charges against Jon are basically: Jon had plants in his warehouse, and had plastic jugs to water the plants. Some plants can be used for illegal purposes, so - let's put him out of business and scare the world. It is obvious they wanted to put Bouncing Bear Botanicals out of business. That was their goal.

But... they will fail. We will win. And we'll need your help.

I'll be posting some links and informational sites and things later. If you have questions, please ask. I'll do my best to answer.

It is time we all get together and fight back against these illegal drug raids and property seizures. Until we really, really, really fight back... they'll continue to win. Let's start fighting seriously right now.

Here are the bogus charges. Please read the last one carefully. Grandma planting her Morning Glory seeds and watering them with a plastic jug could be next:
• Unlawful manufacturing of controlled substances: Dimethlyltryptamine (DMT)

• Unlawful manufacturing of controlled substances: Mescaline

• Unlawful manufacturing of controlled substances: Lysergic Acid Amide

• Unlawful cultivation or distribution of controlled substances: Mescaline

• Unlawful cultivation or distribution of controlled substances: Dimethlyltryptamine; Chacruna; Illinois Bundleflower; Epena; Cebil Seeds.

• Unlawful cultivation or distribution of controlled substances: Bufotenine, Epena, Chaliponga, Cebil Seeds, Colorado River Toads.

• Unlawful cultivation or distribution of controlled substances: Lysergic Acid Amide, Morning Glory Seeds, Rivea Corymbosa.

• Unlawful possession of certain drug precursors and drug paraphernalia: Plastic jugs and filters used or intended for unlawful use to manufacture, cultivate, plant propagate, harvest, test, analyze or distribute a controlled substance.

Also note: There was no mescaline. There was San Pedro cactus. The same ones you can buy at Wal-Mart garden center.

Later friends...

Well thank you for clearing some of this up for us..i am sure there are many of us here that would be willing to help you in your efforts in any way we can..this stuff means alot to us here and what is happening is not right..

Best reguards to you and your family..

Let me also point out that there are two strains of arguments that are permeating the forums and blogosphere.

The first is the argument to DE-criminalize certain "drugs" that are now illegal. This is the goal of organizations like NORML and other great organizations.

The second argument though is what we should be talking about related this raid on BBB. The Feds want to criminalize the use of common ordinary plants. Plants that grow naturally throughout the country and the world. If this horrifying assault on freedom succeeds, then grandma can be busted for buying morning glory seeds and using a plastic jug to water them.

Such an assault on freedom cannot stand.

Thanks for posting and good luck - you will get support here in whatever form you need it.

@ TheGuy

Thanks so much for the info.

I'll be down there in a little over a month for a short visit. I'd like to touch base with you and your people in figuring out how this community can work with you in your struggles. I'll do what I can while in Lawrence to raise awareness about this case and hopefully leave a slightly strengthened support base for you by the time I leave.

I am wishing you guys the very best on this. I am positive you are going to beat it.
Thanks for the update and be sure to let us know what we can do to help in this situation.

TheGuy, thanks a lot for posting here! Please keep us updated if possible, and be sure you'll have support from this community!

Questions I have: What is this filter mentioned in the charges?

Where does the 'manufacturing' charge come from, was there any preparation/solution containing DMT/LSA/Mesc or was it all indeed just plants and some 'genius' looked at the plastic jugs and judged this means 'manufacturing' ?

also weird they added cebil seeds to the dmt charge, when there are at most small traces of dmt in cebil seeds according to most analysis around....

This is the kind of thing that nobody involved should be discussing until after the trial.

I guess you are right, sorry for being naive, I hadnt thought of it this way.. I was just really curious

[Editrevious post referred to has been deleted, thank you]Completely inappropriate, please delete this. Unless you or your friends are going to take the stand, this is libel (perhaps not legally the correct term, but you know what I'm saying).

Friend... are you talking to me or someone else?
Please clarify.

Thanks!

Hmmm the whole discussion is a DIFFICULT one to be made,since that in the light of recent events it cannot be made PUBLIC and FULLY SINCERE at the same time,especially with people over the net that could be literally anyone (it could be done way better for example between Jon's Dad and a close friend's of his in an enclosed not public place,in private): a court case is in order and things said might effect the outcome hence tongues are tied, and the implicated in this trial are more prone to follow the legal advice.Unfortunatelly playing in a "court of law" means one will have to play "with their rules".

Usually in charges like that "intent" and "knowledge" plays a major role : A grandma with morning glories and a jug of water would not propably be arrested if thats the sole evidence, not because if one runs an HPLC on the seeds he/she will not find "controlled substances" but because in this case it seems the grandma has no "intent" or "knowledge" concerning those qualities of the seeds.In some countries old ladies plant opium popies,they blatantly contain morphine but those ladies blatantly grow them for aesthetic reasons. On the other hand if they find those items on me ,and propably find some books on the subject on my self, or they find many plants that they all oh happen to contain something that can be considered in schedule, then i would have hard time convincing them i was ignorant of what they are.In this case i may even get charges for things i have not done, for example my coffee filters that i use only for coffee can be considered extraction tools leaving me lauging and crying at the same time about the absurdity of it all.

On the above, those implicated in the trial cannot and SHOULD NOT comment due to legal implications: but without free speech (because of legal fear) a discussion can only be this sincere.

Cloud, I dont think that psychedelics can singlehandedly change the world in the utopian way you describe, nor they can magically make addicts get rid of their addictions : dont you know of heavy opiate addicts that use psychedelics and psychedelic users that went into opiates addiction or that smoke cigarretes? Companies could easily incorporate them in their products, imagine if they were legal they could give you the whole Pihkal and Tihkal - + other substances- in premeasured pharmaceutical grade pills, plus they are not that difficult to make.Heh, if people are now trusting anyone to get those substances ,many times in uncertain quantities and of iffy purity, they would LOVE the pharmaceutical companies givin' it to them "nice n' clean".Plus, no doctor would have to prescribe it ,you yourself would go and buy them without any pushing from doctors. Do not worry, "the... system" could incorporate psychedelics and still function.Also, check around, many people consume a cornucopia of psychedelics but are still within what you would propably say as "society wants them to do" : they have their "internets" (and pay for it), they have their ipods and oogle over the next generation mobile phones, they work, they vote or they dont vote giving those who vote more power.They still want to fuck,eat,drink,sing,clothe themselves,have a home,look nice etc.And most of them are not feared political actvist or revolutionary che guevaras that would threaten any system, they can be quite tame one could go as far to say that as far as their psychoactive supply is not threatened they arent rushing from their seats to "save the poor/world/human future".They arent exactly..."enlightened Ghandis detached from anything that could give companies/politicians more honey" are they? Now , i do not speak about everyone and i would not want people that feel that they are not described by the above (that they stand in STARK juxtaposition to the description) to feel angry or misjudged. I am just saying what i am seeing around me : most psychedelic users (most,not all) are not that different in practice from the average person -especially if "threatening the establishment is concerned-

To The Guy (Jon's Dad):
I am so relieved to hear fighting talk from you, thank you so much! I was worried that Jon may feel forced to plead guilty to some charges in return for a reduced sentence, in return for the successful illegallisation of the plant sacraments. Please, please, please, do not let this happen. Protect the plants at all costs, and in return we must all protect Jon. He would be doing some major time if he caved anyhow. Great to hear you talking about the Supreme Court! Appeal if you lose, and take the fight to the highest authority- there are indeed famous cases involving civil rights where higher courts have overruled biased redneck judges (The People Vs Larry Flynt springs to mind, although please note I'm not comparing Jon to him!)

To everyone:
Here is my reading of the situation so far, based on what's out there and particularly the aya forums thread. I am not a lawyer, but I do have to understand the law in the area of my profession, so I have an understanding of the basic principles. In any case, the lawyers I know don't know the law either- they look at all the relevent statute and case law to determine what it is. Here's my summary for anyone who hasn't the time to read all that's going on, spattered with my opinion as swayed by reading the threads and my own interpretation of the law:

-This case is an attempt by the establishment to make all plant sacraments illegal.

-I think they have gone after BBB firstly because they are the easiest target due to their forum and people such as the Neurosoup girl always mentioning them on Youtube, and secondly because they are based in Kansas so the judge and jury are I expect going to interpret the law as they want to and find him guilty.

-I believe that Jon will then have to appeal to a higher court to get a less biased judgement.

-Steve Beyer on aya forums says that it is illegal to possess “any material, compound, mixture, or preparation which contains any quantity” of dimethyltryptamine. He did not clarify unambiguously where he quoted this from unfortunately.

-If this is true, then I think the case depends on the legal definition of 'material'. Words in law have meanings that are sometimes different from what you and I expect them to mean, because the meanings are defined through case precedents that can stretch back hundreds of years. That is why even modern statutes (and contracts etc) can read like they're hundreds of years old.

-I have looked in a couple of online legal dictionaries but could not find a definition for 'material' as a noun, only as an adjective. If anyone is a lawyer and/or can find out if there is a set legal definition, please clarify. If material is taken as meaning a chemical such as a powder, then he's ok. However, if there is no legal definition that says otherwise, I expect that the jury and judge will decide that material is wide in scope and so the plants count as 'material... containing any quantity of DMT' and they will use this to find him guilty.

-Steve also says this: "The CSA creates crimes of intent. The statute says that you are subject to criminal penalty if you possess a Schedule I controlled substance "with intent to manufacture, distribute, or dispense it." That is why endogenous DMT and bufotenine are not illegal, and why innocent gardeners growing Echinopsis pachanoi are probably not violating the Controlled Substances Act."

-Due to the BBB forum, the prosecution will argue that he was selling with this intent in mind and that his discaimers were obviously phoney. I expect a redneck judge and jury to agree with this reading. However, this is only relevent if the plants count as schedule I controlled substances, so it is actually irrelevent. It all comes back to the meaning of 'material' (assuming that Steve got that quote from the statute).

-As to the arguments about magic mushrooms as a precedent, the fact that magic mushrooms can be eaten raw for effects makes them different from the plants, while many of the plant sacraments must be prepared in some way in order to ingest. Therefore I do not believe that this precedent can rationally be used to say that plant sacraments which must be prepared are illegal, so ayawaska plants and snuff plants are then safe.

-However, the magic mushrooms precedent might apply to cacti. This is counteracted by the argument that both mescaline and peyote are scheduled- why would peyote need to be scheduled if mescaline already is? Because the statute does not apply to plants, the argument then goes.

-So, assuming that Steve's quote about materials is from statute, I expect that given the hostility of the judge and jury that Jon will be found guilty in Kansas. He will then have to appeal to the next highest court, where I expect he will get a fairer trial. If there is no established of 'material' that contradicts the plants counting as material, and his lawyer is unable to get him off on some other technicality, then I expect he will have to challenge THE LAW ITSELF in order to win his freedom.

-How could he do this? My thoughts...

-Maybe the plants will be deemed illegal, but the confusion in the law and the fact that he and others have been trading in full view for so long will mean that he is let off the hook. However, the precedent is still set that the plants are illegal, and we then have to fight to undo this wrong.

-I think the argument about the prevalence of DMT in so many things, ourselves included, is one way. Maybe he will argue that this law is ridiculous because we ourselves contain DMT, as do some foods and so many other things, so 'material' should be taken as meaning DMT powder itself in a pure or high concentration, and that 'containing any quantity of DMT' is unconstitutional or something to that effect because it makes every one of us illegal, and so much of the world around us.

-Maybe he could argue that these plants are not drugs themselves, but can be used to make drugs, so if he is a drug dealer then so is every chemical company or shop that sells precursors and other materials used to make drugs, or sell any materials that contain small quantities of drugs that can be extracted, such as the LSA in Walmart's Morning Glory seeds or the mescaline in garden superstore cacti.

-Maybe he could argue that these plants are religious sacraments so even if people were using them to make drugs, they should be allowed to do so under the American constitution's freedom of religion laws. Therefore he should not be prosecuted as a supplier, because anyone who uses these things is not using them as drugs but as religious sacraments, and they have to get them from somewhere so it is necessary that they are sold. UDV, Daime and NAC are proof that these plants are religious sacraments, and not hedonistic drugs. It is obvious that these drugs evoke positive spiritual experiences. This may not wash legally, but it will bring the issue of freedom to the fore and make the case about civil rights, putting prohibition itself on trial. However...

-Judges cannot change the law. The most they can do is clarify when the law is ambiguous. So...

-Jon's freedom, and the freedom of us all, would then hinge on the entheogenic community reawakening the civil rights movement to campaign against the government's immoral infringement of our natural rights.

-In this scenario, Jon is either abandoned and his freedom taken away along with our sacraments, or the community wakes up again and fights for their rights, right through to victory. It is not the 60s anymore. The climate has changed. There are far more people today who would support us than back then, whole generations with significant proportions who have experimented with drugs and would be sympathetic to the cause of religious sacraments. Levels of religious tolerence has never been so high. The UDV, Daime and NAC all have set precedent that religious freedom should not be denied. NOW IS THE TIME. Our brothers and sisters must be released from jail! Demonstrate!

Women won their freedom. Black people won their freedom. Gay people won their freedom.

NOW IS THE TIME FOR ENTHEOGEN BELIEVERS TO WIN THEIR FREEDOM!