Hi there!

Some time ago people asked me:

Oh cool completely white and pure DMT, let me give a smell.

Then: Man that's super boring it is not even smelling that much.

And indeed - did you also get this impression? When some stuff was completely crystal white I had the feeling it is not smelling.

Now vice versa:

Heat a sample of DMT at 180 °C, but dont cause any big air flow to evaporate it. Most of it will still vaporize, while other stuff will just remain as a red-brown-black remainder. And this smells A LOT like "DMT".

So could it be that the "DMT-Smell" is more a product of small traces from oligomeric products instead of the real "true" DMT of 188 g/mol?

I've also found that DMT freebase crystallized in water does not have that same pungent typical DMT smell, it is milder and of a distinct character. I supposed non-polar trapped within crystal formations would be at least partly responsible for the pungent smell, and hence absent in the water crystallized freebase

The oligomer theory sounds interesting. How can we test for it?

My only 2 cents for this oligomer theory is that there is no thermal combustion / degradation taking place at 160 °C, as any reaction in DSC seems to happen at 230 °C+.

Now when heating up DMT you cannot back-dissolve all in hot Naphtha. This makes me think that every time heating it up, some DMT polymerizes. And now as this is the only real shift of property that DMT can undergo at that temperatures, I was just thinking that this is might be the only source of adding a new smell to the mix.

Other than that it would mean crystallized DMT has (nearly) no smell, while oiled out DMT has. So dont see that this would be too realistic. But again sadly there is no definite route to get pure Oligomer. I guess just heating up 10 g and then trying to fetch some Oligomer via Column Chromatography is nothing anybody wants to do.




But actually ... I remember playing around with some other Indol last year. I wanted to use it for Friedel Craft Acylation.

When adding it to the AlCl3-Atmosphere I saw it hardening even at my syringe typ already when adding it too slow. So strong (Lewis) Acids might polymerize indols. But again this was a Methylene-Indol which would be even far more reactive with that additional double bond (dont know how to count in Indols, it was at that 5-Ring). Maybe having a pure mix of DMT, melting it and dropping some strong (Lewis) Acid might do something. Cationic Polymerization is quite fast with 90 % Conversion. But then again I think the consent here was that DMT polymerizes in basic environment, not vice versa. But maybe that conditions discussed above are far enough off from a regular acidic aqueous cook, where nothing happens obviously.

There has also been past reports ..that pure white crystal spice..besides the different smell.. doesnt have the same effect as full jungle spice...

Ive noticed a difference myself at times... at times.. [full spectrum].. [jungle spice].. seemed more visual and emersive.. there might be other actives in the bark .. that havent been discovered?

Can it be so that oily DMT more readily becomes airborne than crystalline? In such case that would explain more intense smell.

What about vapour/smoking device smell after smoking? is it much different?

In short, no.. Jungle spice is still pretty much DMT as Burnt´s, Brennende´s and my analysis have shown

That being said, there are some other trace compounds in Mimosa hostilis but some of them like 2MTHBC also appear in pure-looking extracts... Also, in the amounts found, it is very unlikely they will have any effect.

You have to consider self-suggestion as potentially playing a big role in the different effects you feel: You see something different you expect different effects, and this expectation affects the experience. Some years back I made this thread to try and isolate that self-suggestion variable, and only one person participated and couldnt tell the difference apart. Would be nice if more people tried something similar to accurately compare.

Also, even within a specific batch, there can be huge variations of effects. There are so many internal and external factors that can play a role in the effects that I believe it to be very hard to make strong affirmations regarding specific effects in one or other batch. Would be interesting to have more proper tests though.


By the way Brennende´s Wasser, could you draw the mechanism by which this polymerization is happening?

Pure DMT kind of has a floral scent to it, quite pleasant.
Still tastes kinda too harsh by itself though to not mix it with anything

Even unresolved polymorph mix of pure DMT oil isn't as strong smelling as extracted