I was wondering how you all would feel about adding a section called "Law" to the forums. The purpose would be 3-fold.

First, this forum could be used as a means of posting any relevant court cases that we hear about regarding DMT or other entheogens. These might be local cases or even a Supreme Court hearing. This would be a great place for everyone interested to help keep up-to-date with how the fight for legalization is going. An important example would be the recent Gonzales v. O Centro Espirita Beneficente Uniao do Vegetal.

Secondly, it would provide a forum for discussion of existing legislation, ranging from First Amendment rights to the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA) to the many state-level mini-RFRAs. People could ask questions regarding the law and become more informed.

Thirdly, it would provide a place to discuss possible efforts that the community could help with, which would aid the fight toward legalization.

I realize that there is no sizable crowd of members who are lining up to learn about the laws surrounding DMT, but I think it is important to have the information available nonetheless. Because there may not be many members who have extensive knowledge about these laws, I would provide a personal statement of summary for all the relevant legislation and court cases. This way, people could understand in common terms what these laws and cases mean.

I would not want this implemented immediately, even if you all like the idea. I'd like to put together a few Sticky threads for the section before starting it. This might take a couple weeks, so I wanted to judge your opinions first, before working on it.

Ideally, the section would be divided a such:

LAW
>LEGISLATURE
>COURT CASES
>WAYS TO HELP

I'm totally against it as it would lead to a scare. It also kills off the vibe at least for me...seeing a huge section named "Law" ...it's ridiciolous to associate law problems with entheogen use and we should not give this any attention at all. At least not on a board dedicated to spreading the love.

That is the purpose of the site. I don't believe a Law section would go against spreading the love, either. I want this because I do love this community, and want to see it grow in all areas of knowledge relating to DMT.

That being said, I posted that to judge opinions, so thank you for posting yours. Out of the 20-some people who have viewed the thread so far, you're the only one to post and I appreciate it.

Well, I'm happy for UDV and their recent win. It's a good indicator, that something positive is happening. But what I don't like is the whole situation and I feel very strongly that talking about it only promotes the stablishment of certain categorys we don't like. DMT as a drug, DMT as something unlawful...In my opinion, the focus should be discussing and promoting the growth one can experience using elf spice and not the loss, and rape one could experience.

I'm with obliguhl on this one.

Although I like the initial idea I think a section like that puts judgement on entheogens. I rather like to keep the DMT-Nexus more 'scientific' minded without any judgement at all.

That said however, I'm still open for good arguments from all sides.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

I think you both have valid points. I think information on where spice stands in the eyes of the law could only be a good thing. Let's face it, this is a schedule 1 / class A substance. If you take that lightly you are in deep shit, and I speak from experience. Unfortunately, entheogen use and law, like it or not, are inextricably linked. Reminders of this can only be a good thing IMO.

Erowid has sections for this which are informative, concise and neutral. A forum section on this may not be the answer however. I agree with obliguhl saying that it would lead to discussion of topics that shift focus away from the positive aspects of spice. I also think there would be little point in people adding to a "law" forum, unless they are a lawyer, or very well informed which, I assume, you are Kartikay?

My suggestion, for what it's worth, is that this would be a good topic to include in the wiki. That way it is there for those who wish to refer to it, and it wont promote unnecessary discussion. You could include all the sections you see fit, Karticay, and edit / add to them when something new comes up.

nice compromise 1664. it IS pertinent information that SHOULD be accessible to those over whom it would come down. the wiki could be a good idea in that the information would be there for those who sought it out, but would not be openly "in yo face" so as to cast a funky shadow on our spiritual picnic over here.

i agree with both sides of this topic and i personally feel like this could be a good compromise.

however, if it is going to come to a simple YES/INCLUDE, NO/DON'T INCLUDE vote, i will have to vote for the NO team. the sanctity of this site lies not only in it's amazing amount of combined experience and technical knowledge, but in it's true "aloha", or community spirit. we have something VEEEEERY special here and it rests as much in our intent and focus for the "spirit" of our site as the "substance". throwing up an obvious billboard reminding everyone of the potential legal descent into hell that could befall them would certainly bum many a nexian out.

that's my take on it. first choice-wiki. second choice-nay on the "law section".

SWIM's agreeing with 1664 on this one, but he would like to add that such a section could also be goal oriented; as in, it could help to promote the activist effort to end prohibition. Beyond that, SWIM thinks it's important to discuss how DMT can be "prepped" for potential legal status (SWIM believes that "The Jurema Way" thread was leaning toward this on a religious platform). Even if use and possession are legalized, that doesn't mean production for personal use will be, but SWIM believes that this community has demonstrated that the value of this substance is inextricably tied to its production. Having it exclusively available from a vendor or pharmacy would be fairly intolerable for many of the members of this forum who have grown fond of the practice of extraction and take pride in their work therein, and furthermore, commercial availability is incredibly lofty far-off possibility whereas legalization of extraction is a bit more realistic (considering the general lack of contest even now, in these times of prohibition). For example, SWIM believes that wholesome food-grade and nontoxic approaches to extraction stand a better chance of legalization than less savory approaches, and that could be a possible topic for discussion.

I very much like the wiki idea.

And I would consider myself very well informed about laws and how they relate to entheogens. I'm pre-law, though, not a lawyer. And I'm American. I only have my undergraduate. I have to wait until I finish my military service before starting law school. That being said, I am very, very well versed in laws regarding entheogens. I am even learning Portuguese to better converse with the UDV and its members, although more than enough information about their case is available in English and can be acquired via Thomson Reuters, West.

If people honestly believe that discussion of the law behind their sacrament will hurt the community, then I concede, although I am utterly shpongled as to their train of logic leading to such a conclusion.

As ideas for the wiki: Cataloging all known instances of DMT-related or entheogenic extraction related arrests, sourcing the articles regarding the arrests, and perhaps offering reviews of those articles to correct the misinformation often found within (preferably sourced corrections). Also adding a law section to the general DMT article giving a brief summary of the legal implications, and also linking to a more detailed list of various regions and their laws which can in turn cite the known arrests according to region; this could also cite the efforts and progress toward legalization, as in the case of the UDV and so on.

I sometimes think that LEO trys to scare entheogen users by inducing paranoia. This is another reason for not having the forum section. I'm not ignorant, I know that Spice is considered 'bad' by many people and that these people feel the need to sanction entheogen users on what basis ever....but it's my honest opinion, that we can only win this if we stick to what we believe is right without letting anything interfere with it.

I'm ok with the wiki entry though. It seems like a thoughtfull solution and I'm happy to see that you're a specialist kartikay

I'd put my vote for the wiki, a LAW section in the forum would almost unquestionably wind up all over the place. I don't think that the forum section would add anything appreciable.

Additionally, while it is important that members of the entheogenic community be aware of the legal implications of their actions, this is no more important than doing the research as to the acute effects of a given entheogen prior to taking it. Both of these (which I would consider to be the preliminary aspects of any entheogenic exploration) are burdens that the user takes upon him/herself when making the decision to explore these substances.

I'm aware of the legal risks we are all taking by partaking in this research and exploration, but personally I don't feel the need for a daily reminder that my interests are illegal and I have legitimate reasons to be paranoid of the powers that be due to a backwards worldview and restrictive cultural clothing. This is not a reminder I would like to have, especially not when first pulling up the Nexus forum. It's not going to make me more aware that my own exploration has been outlawed and it's not going to give me any sort of comfort.

To my mind, if this belongs here, it belongs in the wiki, as it should be more of a reference less of a discussion. But I must say, if this were ever to be polled, my sentiments echo antrocles'.

It is this allergy to activism that keeps the community weak.

amen brother

Instead of creating a law section to handle the effects of prohibition I choose to start a new section to do something about the prohibition itself and handle a much wider scope. In that new section you can also talk about laws and advice about laws.

It's called 'The Psychedelic Frontier Foundation' and you can find it here: click!


Kind regards,

The Traveler

Oh, The Traveler, I love you. Thank you so much!