Want to summarize the Crystals In Solvent Lazily OTC (CISLO) systems that are showing promise. These are less general than liquid - liquid A/B extractions with a lot fewer working combinations, but the specialization makes the process shorter/simpler when it does work.

The general method is:
- Make a paste with dry plant material, water, and base
- Pull with solvent
- Reccomended: Purify solvent with rest to settle particles and/or a drying agent to remove water/micro emulsions (drying agent is not needed in all cases). Decant or filter. With experience and an ideal system, this step can potentially be skipped to achieve legendary lazyness status, but it can be good "insurance" as more experience is gained.
- Salt solvent with an acid that is soluble in the solvent and that will react and form xtals with the dissolved alkaloids of interest. These requirements really limit the material space, and a lot of calories have been spent with trial and error here. Most combos don't work, but the combos that work result in a specialized simplified extraction compared to the general A/B method that accepts many more different materials. The loss of generality and need for very specific material is rewarded with ease of extraction combined with instant selectivity/purity.
- Rest so beautiful crystaline product forms directly in pulled solvent. Recover salts by decanting and wash with fresh solvent to remove any traces of salting acid and solvent soluble plant material. If using toluene, a second solvent such as acetone is reccomended to wash away toluene itself.

With the advent of e-vaping, some of these salts can be administered via aerosol into the lungs near physiological pH as long as the salts are soluble in PG (some are, but not all). This "salty" method is a new alternative to the classic vaporization of free base alkaloids with heat. Warning that some organic salts like citric can breakdown at vaping temps (175C to 200C) and vaping safety is has not been established.

There are currently three main CISLO families:
- CIELO: Ethyl acetate salted with an organic acid (such as citrate or fumaric). Success reported for mescaline from columnar cactus and harmalas from rue seeds. Did not work for DMT from MHRB or psilocybin from mushrooms.
- CILLO: Limonene salted with benzoic acid. Worked for DMT. Did not work for mescaline. Needs to be tested psilocybin.
- CINLO: Naphtha salted with benzoic acid. Worked for DMT.
- CITLO: Toluene salted with benzoic acid. Worked for mescaline in preliminary testing. Needs to be tested for DMT and psilocin.

Links to example CISLO systems (some are finalized, others are work in progress):

- CIELO Mescaline Citrate/Fumarate: Cactus/Lime/Ethyl Acetate/Citric or Fumaric acid - confirmed
- CITLO Mescaline benzoate: Cactus/Lime/Toluene/Benzoic acid. Another example here.
- CIELO Harmala citrate: Rue/Lime/Hot Ethyl Acetate/ citric acid - confirmed
- CILLO DMT benzoate: MHRB powder/Lye/Limonene/Benzoic acid - work in progress, so far promising
- CINLO DMT Benzoate and possibly something else: MHRB powder/Lye/Naphtha/Benzoic acid - work in progress, so far promising
- CITLO DMT benzoate: MHRB/Lye//Ethyl Acetate/Benzoic acid
- CIALO Bufotenine benzoate: Yopo/Sodium Carbonate/Acetone/Benzoic acid


Hope we can confirm these and add other systems over time. Cheers and happy xtal growing ✨

Loveall, the generous chemist who keeps giving…simpler, faster, safer.


Thanks!

Thanks Loveall. Had a bit of a forced break from all this but keen to get my pedro/bridge harvest dehydrated. Logs have been wrapped up for over 9 months now in the garage. Crazy thing is they pupped like crazy! Hope that didn't deplete the alkaloids? Anyway, broke off a bunch and planted and they've gone from pale yellow to deep dark green so onward with future generations.

So two things: first - the link to the harmala citrate is broken for me. I think I know which thread it is tho, but maybe a fix for others.

Second - now I read about Benzoic acid - damn Loveall, you like a chem sales and marketing machine! I see here it's quite cheap, even the AR version, so that's not a big deal. But I was wondering - maybe you could compile a CISLO Shopping List? Basically a nice list of chemstuffs to stock up on when I go shopping for the Benzoic...to be able to participate in and try out all your great research.

Thinking....EA, Benzoic, Phosphoric, Calc Hydroxide, Toluene...and well you know better than me. Would compliment this thread I reckon.

Cheers, and thanks for all the info. Keen to jump back in soon since this seems to cover 3 of my favourite substances...

There's the harmala links Merkin
https://wiki.dmt-nexus.m...Acetate_Approach_Harmala
https://www.dmt-nexus.me...;t=97599&find=unread

Had some 'jungle spice' from a toulene/ heptane/ hexane pull. I decided to test 114mg of it and dissolved it in 40ml of EA, then salt it with 600mg citric acid. (15mg per ml)

A gum like clump formed, 430mg worth (like BW's bufo photos). It was off white in color. Dried it and diced it with a razor. It originally dried quite hard but as I diced it more it became slight waxy. It's still crystal but with a slight stickiness to it.

It may crystalize better with a less citric acid and left to crash instead of shaken.

Anyway can confirm it worked don't know how I ended up with 430mg?

Edit: It has now become more of a gum and less white (more of a very light caramel).

Yes, this matches what I got, a good from EA pulls of DMT after salting with citric

Not sure why the mass is so high. The goo has water and extra citric acid, IDK.

It can't have been a h2o issue unless the jungle spice had h20 in it which i doubt it, it had been sitting for months. The EA is clear of h2o too.

Excess citric acid i guess? I only used 15mg per ml. Does anyone know the actually weight of DMT citrate. I can't find it anywhere. If i knew the weight i could adjust the amount of citric acid to better match it.

It looks like at least 2 grams of mixed harmala freebase will dissolve in 250mL room temperature butyl acetate. Some preliminary tests showed that citric acid precipitation is also viable. All that remains to be done is some hot pulls on rue seed base paste and, fingers crossed, we should be able to add the CIBLO harmala variant.

Didn't orchidist make that calculator app for things like this? Also available with hydration!

I'd have to update the spreadsheet to include DMT citrates, though.

I don't think EA and Benzonic acid works for DMT, will leave it overnight to see if it crystalizes. Edit: Did not crystalize overnight.
Harmala FB was not soluble in D Limonene either to salt out harmala benzoate nor would it crash out of ethyl acetate as harmala benzoate. Which has me thinking in barks high in
mthbc like acuminata typical variant, if mthbc acts like harmala in D limonene then it would be a good way to separate DMT from any mtbc that makes it through the extraction.

Also Loveall how quickly do crystals form for the DMT Benzonate in limonene?

Edit: Disregard Loveall it appears to crash quite quickly, will leave it overnight.

Bufo benzoate appears to crash out of D-limo with benzoic acid. May be worth investigating. I haven't enough material to test further.
Edit: not viable unless heated (likely to boiling point)

Thanks! Added your link in the first post. Any idea of the pH of the paste before pulling or concerns about a negative charge on bufotenine if the pH is high, keeping it out of limonene?

As a dry tek that's left to dry out I'd say its hard to measure accurately maybe around 9-10 as the base is sodium carbonate.

I used spent seeds from BW's tek.
They formed very fine crystals though. I pulled with hot limo maybe I should have let it cool first for bigger crystal formation? The solvent obviously didn't have much bufo in it as initial cloud was limited. Gave it a few shakes to dissolve excess benzonic acid and over 1hr a white mist began to form. At 16hrs fine salt granules formed. Not sure how well a filter would catched these. Especially with such a small amount. A more saturated solvent may have formed larger crystals?

But could make for a quick tek. I'm not sure how well bufo benzoate would go sublingually, but Jonathan Ott recommended sublingual use, I think with harmine for a easier body load bufo trip.

As the photo shows it is quite fine, they're mainly bunched up at the bottom of the photo but you can see them throughout.

The problem is that bufo is insoluble in limo at room temp but soluble in boiling limo, I didn't heat mine to boiling temperatures so I am unsure if this is bufo. It depends on if FB bufo is soluble in heated limo below boiling temperatures. BW's and 69Ron both have different data on bufo in limo.

Edit: I may try to bioassay this soon, If it is indeed bufo benzoate then this could simplify the tek. Especially as sublingual use is reported to ease body load and side effects of the bufo.

It could be as simple as make the base paste with sodium carb, dry it, (may need defatting) pull with limo, salt out with benzoate, filter and then clean with EA (maybe cold EA). It appears bufo benzoate does not dissolve in EA.

Unfortunately without more materials I can not confirm anything further.

Upon further reading of old threads and comparing my limited results I don't think heated limo and benzoic acid are practical unless it's boiling. I thought my low yield was due to spent seeds, it is more likely due to the solvent being too non-polar at lower temps/ bufo not getting to melting point. (I do believe it is doable at boiling temps which is not ideal). A number of nexians have tested with FB in boiling limo in the past with decent results. BW noted he was worried it would degrade the bufo.

I am sacrificing what tiny amount of bufo FB i have left to test other benzoate combinations.

I took some impure bufo and dissolved it in hot acetone and dropped benzoic acid into it.

After 8 hours crystals are forming and there's a lot of small ones floating around still forming. The photo doesn't do it justice, they appear to be reddish though.

Edit: All crystals big and small have stuck to the jar overnight, making for easy decanting. If this is bufo selective (likely is) then this could be a quick tek like the cielo.

Very promising work. Thanks for the updates on your research

Nice work _Trip_

Do you suppose then the following outline:


8. Add around 3-5g benzoic acid? Wait for crystals to settle and then decant/filter

Edit: Perhaps the paste can be dried by microwave?

Hey woolmer, yeah look if I had more material that is exactly what I would be doing. I'm yet to confirm if those crystals in the acetone are bufo but I'd almost guarantee it. So just to be sure don't throw anything out. The crystals should settle after 12+hrs (maybe less) and stick to the jar enough for the acetone to be easily decanted. You can use hot water to loosen the crystals from the jar, they don't appear to be soluble in boiling tap water.

3-5g should be plenty. I think acetone holds 1g per 3ml according to pubchem.

I have used a microwave before with no issues but if you don't have much material (seeds) to test maybe stick with air drying. If you have a bit of material to test it would be interesting to do a comparison side by side (microwave vs air dry).

I would maybe go 4x or 5x defattings with boiling naphtha.

Otherwise, I'm interested to hear how you go. If you don't have many seeds to play with maybe stick with BW's process. I would hate to be responsible for giving you the wrong information.



I would love to keep experimenting myself but am having trouble sourcing seeds. I wish I could experiment and help you more.

Would be good to see BW drop in again.

I still have a few questions on this: whether bufo benzoate can be used sublingually?
(Jonathan Ott i believe reported it was the best administration method with I think harmine).
And if instead of frying the seeds one could skip that step, defat with (room temp) limo, and then adding benzoic acid to the limo and see if DMT and 5meo benzoate can be recovered instead of destroying it during frying (may work if fats don't become an issue). Then proceed to acetone pulls for bufo benzoate.

I have around 150g of seeds so I can maybe do three extractions of 50g. I will keep doing some reading and decide on which route I will go with.

Are you sure DMT and 5-meo get destroyed during the frying step? I know the vaporization temperatures are a bit lower than bufotenine but not by too much, and I would imagine that they are naturally in some salt form already with a higher vaporization temperature.

I wonder if BW ever worked with the naphtha from the defat step to see what it yielded.

Yeah sorry i should have stated, it is definitely likely it does not get destroyed, hard to know for sure I've never measuring the fry pans temperature. You are probably correct. However, either way it gets discarded and is likely only present in small traces anyway (although I'm sure it varies plant to plant). But it has me curious is all.

Keep us posted on what you decide to do.

Took freebase harmala and dissolved it in EA. It salted out nicely with tartaric acid. Instant clouds forming and then a precipitation similar to basing.

Tartaric acid isn't very soluble in EA but soluble enough. It is more soluble in acetone. I tried both Acetone and EA loaded tartaric acid in harmala dissolved EA. Both worked. Hot water bath helped solubility.

I have a feeling if using on initial pulls with rue with EA it would form a goo not crystals like citric acid does (I could be wrong). The fluffy emulsion looking crystals below is how harmala citrate forms when purer freebase is converted or a chemical dry is done on initial pulls. That's my reasoning why I think it may form a goo under other circumstances. However, it is a nice crisp crystal and not a sticky crystal like harmala citrate.

I gave this ago because of the recent experiment Loveall has been doing with PG and vaping. Tartaric is another acid used in nicotine vapes so it may work for harmala vaping? I don't have PG or a vape so I can't help. Harmala tartrate appears to be soluble in water (I washed the filter with water and dried/ scraped up the result, they changed toa red).

Phosphoric acid also crashes out harmala in EA but forms more similarly to harmala citrate (this was off memory from the EA harmala early experiments). However, I don't think phosphate form is suitable for vaping.

Weird about the color differences below with the same harmala.
I think its been done before but I woudn't mind looking into DMT tartrate.

I'm yet to get harmala benzoate. I have only tried limo and EA for memory at this stage.