Hello all!

This is my first post, I saw new members can post here so I hope it's okay if I do so; I've been reading this site for nearly 4 years now and have read countless threads, but only actually got around to making an account a few days ago. I'm very grateful for this site and the immense amount of knowledge on it.

Anyways, onto the actual first steps:

Technically, the steps were a few months ago in September, but the smoking technique was terrible (a hand blown glass pipe and a temperature control hot air gun) which went rather poorly. There were still intense effects, but the experience as a whole was terrible.

A few weeks ago, harmalas (sublingual) was mixed with vaped administration (using a modified yocan evolve dual quartz coil on an evic vtc mini). The experiences were positive, with intense and crisp animated visuals behind closed and opened eyes. Much was gained from these 2 experiences, but there was a core unsavory detail: extreme confusion.

This confusion was so deep that it was more forgetting how to think than anything, unsure if anything existed or if anything was true. All logic was gone, and with it most of my emotions and I guess ego too. It was very meditative, floating through the void as a consciousness unattached to any logic, but not entirely pleasant.

The first time it happened, it was chalked up to swallowing the harmalas that hadn't been absorbed under my tongue, around 100mg. This was because the confusion only started about an hour in (dmt administration was a number of small doses over 1:30), in line with harmala's comeup time.

The next time I did less harmalas, and spat out what didnt absorb. There was a very minor amount of confusion, but not much until dmt was administered. In contrast, in previous doses without harmalas I had a much shorter experience (came down in around 5-7 minutes) but no confusion.

I found no record of this happening on this forum or anywhere else, has anyone else experienced this?

On another very beginner-ish note, the dmt was very harsh. In theory, much more harsh than it should have been as all of the naptha was washed with a water + sodium carbonate wash to remove any traces of lye.

How does one know if the dmt is being overheated? The vape I have wont do TC with the yocan coil, and it's all that I can get for now (plus being able to glassblow simple pieces as well). I saw talk of dmt vapour being nearly unnoticeable when vaped correctly, is this an exaggeration or was the fire button perhaps just held down a little too much? At first I was using 15 watts but settled on 11 ish by the end. Airflow is also reasonably limited, I'm not sure what else to compare it too but it is substantially more easy than a vape like a STLTH or a JUUL, but much less (maybe twice as hard to pull?) than a box mod with the airflow vents fully open. If needed I can further modify the coil to allow more airflow if that would help.

As a last ditch effort, I bought some menthol crystals to make it less harsh but I want to make sure that I'm not wasting/burning anything first.

So what do you think, did harmalas cause my confusion? and is precious spice being burned?

Peace and love.

I've experienced the confusion on a few occasions, but never in series. It's the first I'm hearing of this idea. Granted I may have a sort of headstart in being very familiar with harmalas since I drink rue tea almost everyday. Also, I may not become regularly confused, but I have had many a changa journey with a necessary purge.

It also sounds like the spice is overheated. Tends to be pretty smooth when vaped at proper temperature.

Good luck

One love

Man it's so cool to get a response from someone I recognize, I really appreciate all your posts on here.

Interesting, thank you for your experience with the harmalas! Do you think there's any chance the extraction was performed incorrectly or something along those lines? Not sure what other alks would cause those effects though.

Sounds good, I'll try a lower heat. Does properly vaporized spice have an easily visible vapor? If I make a long enough (drawstem? mouthpiece?) I'll be able to tell when it starts to vaporize assuming the vapor is visible enough.

I'm touched Thank you.

The more you interact with harmalas the easier they are to navigate. I would need to know more about the details of the extraction performed. But I suppose anything is possible. Burnt DMT is very harsh, and very unpleasant. Also, DMT is generally wild, and can cause weird effects. I'm rarely surprised in certain ways anymore.

I've found it to almost always be visible, from the smoothest hits I've ever taken, to the harshest. You will however taste it, and feel it in your mouth and throat. This may also depend on device and method of heating how visible the vapor is. Having a longer stem can help manage bigger hits for deeper journeys. But yeah, all this to say if you're looking to see it and your device and method enables it, then you should.

One love

"extreme confusion.

This confusion was so deep that it was more forgetting how to think than anything, unsure if anything existed or if anything was true. All logic was gone, and with it most of my emotions and I guess ego too. It was very meditative, floating through the void as a consciousness unattached to any logic, but not entirely pleasant."

Wow Sounds like a very powerful experience! Many of us get that confusion, it can go on and on Have you read much on the nexus Lexicon? they even broke down different types of Ego Deaths https://wiki.dmt-nexus.me/Hyperspace_lexicon

There's some ideas and tools I have to prepare for that. I'm planning on doing a big yoga share here soon, but check out for example, Mantra, Yantra, Mudra, Asana, Pranayama and imagine how that could change your trip?

The device sounds troublesome, could you get your hands on a Vaporgenie by any chance?

When the spice is burt you know. The smell in the room should be sweet like heaven, when it smells like a factory or something you know. Slow and low for the win.

Hi knotimpressed,

Welcome to the DMT-Nexus and thank you for sharing your experiences!

As for the confusion, that happens to quite a few people. The DMT journey is rapid and often filled with undefinable "things" that can confuse even the most seasoned traveler. Thus I would say the confusion is normally expected behavior.

After these journey's you took I would advice you to integrate the experience before diving in again. With that I mean that you take the time to accept what happend to you and that you are ok with what it brought you, even if that is mainly confusion.

Then when you dive in again after the integration you might be beter able to grasp more things from that mystical and undefinable hyperspace realm.


As for harshness. Even with the most clean DMT I usually have to cough a few times. I have very sensitive lungs that do not like any change of air-mixture, you might have the same.

I would not worry about potentially smoking any lye, lye will not evaporate at all at the heat applied.

Burned DMT is something that you will immediately recognize: it smells just REALLY horrible, like burned plastic mixed with burned mothballs. No way you would not recognize it.

So I think you just have sensitive lungs, just like me. What did help me with the harshness was making changa with the mint herb included in it. That might be something for you as well?


Kind regards,

The Traveler

It doesn't seem to be causing confusion, rather it seems to be making you think clearer. There's a difference between if something is true and if it's logical; for something to be logical, it has to make sense in an imaginary world — it doesn't necessarily have to be true.

Personally, I've done large doses of harmalas, orally, and never experienced any confusion. Harmalas — by themselves — are very relaxing for me.

I remember my first 5 or so harmala trips being really confusing. I remember thinking ghosts were walking above me. Weird shapes were sort of interfacing with my mind and moving in ways I didn't understand. It seemed like a conscious spirit feeling me out, but was unlike anything I could relate to.

I think the first few harmala trips are a bit of a test. To see if you come back and how you react to it. How do you react to it? Hopefully by being accepting and going along with it. The spirit gets a sense for your operating system to see what's needed. The trips do eventually start making more sense and become a logical progression with lessons, but can still be weird and impossible to explain. But I think you have to go through more weirdness and discomfort at the beginning than with other psychedelics.

Excellent, thank you Voidmatrix! I'll definitely make that change for next time. I'm assuming a non burnt hit is just the same numbing/spicy feeling that a raw crystal touched to your tongue gives?

As an aside, the extraction was some hybrid of https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=65052 and https://wiki.dmt-nexus.m...e_Tao_of_Rue_Extraction; I severely underestimated the difficulty and patience such an extraction took, and it took nearly 6 days to complete. The final product has a decent amount of salt and sodium carbonate contamination, enough to taste. I think like 4-5 A/B and at least 3-4 Manske's were performed though, so I assume all the bad alks were removed. Also, it was found out the hard way that a lower pH =/= greater solubility, and the ideal pH is around 3-4, not "as much citric acid will dissolve" as I originally (and foolishly) thought.

(not entirely sure what the proper etiquette for responses to multiple people is) f1: I have read parts! Not tons, its a bit forebodingly long but I think it partially counted as "soft" ego death, and only barely.

I have actually done some yoga before! (about 40 hours total), and along with some CBT exercises I really think they both helped me a lot those 2 trips. Although not a normal mantra, repeating "all will be well, this will pass" was very helpful.

The device is less troublesome than you might think, I think the proper temperature was just misjudged. I definitely could buy a GVG though, and I will if this continues to work poorly.

The spice smells like plastic/shoes/flowers, but only after sitting around for a while; at first it smells (and tastes) much more like... idk, pungent bad hostilis bark I guess.

Woah and a response from The Traveler!? (can I add in a special @ or username tag with this markup?)

The part on acceptance as a part of integration is more important than I thought it was, I wish I had realized that sooner. Not being afraid of something happening again is probably a good mindset to be in.

I do also have very sensitive lungs, although due to the occasional toke of various herbs and whatnot they have gotten a little better. I understand the vaporization temperature of lye, however the water wash also resulted in much cleaner smelling and looking crystals, which helps my peace of mind if nothing else, so I'll likely keep doing it.

I tried adding mint leaves to some other smoking blends (which became much smoother), which is what led to the menthol actually; hopefully it will have the same effect with less residue. Thank you for the tips!

Jupiter man: true, confusion was just the best label I had at the time; unfortunately it definitely wasn't thinking more clearly really; thoughts of "if I press play on my phone, will music play? I dont know" I guess in a way are much more deeply questioning than normal, but the inability to get to any answers for even basic questions was annoying.

Harmalas by themselves were definitely relaxing, it seemed to be the combination with DMT that caused issues for whatever reason.

jungleheart: Interesting, thats the first I've heard of an experience like that but it makes sense. I wish there were more weekends free of responsibility to get a better feel for it.

To everyone, thank you so so so much for the fantastic and helpful responses, man I love this site.

Peace and love.

I would say even less so than when the crystal touches your tongue. Generally for me, I can feel the vapor, but not any harshness. I tend to cough slightly on the comedown, but I chalk that up to the fact that DMT is slightly basic. So, I just drink some elderberry syrup after and the sensation goes away.

Yep! That's a long tek, but according to the information, it's well worth it. I have yet to be successful with a complete Tao of Rue extraction. I've been having trouble lately with caapi extractions as well. Just gotta keep at it. The more we do it, the more we understand and the better we get. One thing that helps me is not being in any kind of rush for any tek. I'll do a DMT extraction over an entire week. To be fair, I have plenty of deems around and harmalas too, which makes taking my time easier.

One love

100mg sublingual harmalas is quite a stiff dose. More often I've seen dosages suggested around 30-40mg. So, depending as well on the harmine/harmaline balance, I do feel that could have contributed to the confusion. IME higher harmala doses steer one away from the normal, everyday kind of cognition so if you were expecting to retain that kind of function it could indeed be confusing. Today after a moderately high dose of harmala extract (equivalent to maybe 5g of seeds) I wandered around the garden just looking at stuff - the way I normally think about what I'm doing simply wasn't accessible, even without the involvement of DMT. To the outside observer, this may well have resembled confusion Also, the response to a given dose of harmalas is not necessarily consistent from day to day, nor at different times of the day. This may be down to natural variations in neurotransmitter levels and in metabolism.

As far as taking your time in extractions goes^, my present effort with harmalas has taken over a month so far


And welcome to the Nexus, knotimpressed!

Voidmatrix: There was a pretty decent yield at the end even after all the screwups, so I agree that its a pretty great tek. Good luck with your future extractions, and I'll keep elderberry syrup in the back of my mind to buy if I ever see any.

downwardsfromzero: Hey I recognize you too! Thank you very much for the warm welcome to all of you. I could definitely see an extraction taking that long, its patience-testing stuff. 100mg is definitely a lot sublingually, the dose went up and up because there didnt seem to be any effects; on the second attempt it was kept sublingual for longer and there were effects with a much smaller dose (30-40mg I think).

I agree though, 100mg was rather a lot, once the dmt was gone the effects were pretty intense. Interesting to see how harmalas visuals (more dream/reality-like) compare to DMT (very neon/animated, and crisp).

As a side note, if I PM The traveler can I change my username? I made a poor choice with this one, bad enough to probably warrant deleting this account if I can't get the name changed.

Peace and love.

Congrats on your rapid promotion, I'm sure if you ask Trav you can get your name changed to something less knotty and more impressive

Thank you! It honestly makes me really happy to be welcome in a community that has given me so much over the years.

Very very glad to hear that, I appreciate the info!

Peace and love.