is Direct e mesh considered .. conduction heat..or convection heat..or some other class of heating..?

any opinions?

Seeing as the material is resting directly on the mesh I would consider this largely to be conduction, plus some small amount of radiative heating over a tiny distance.

Convection would imply heating of a carrier gas (in this case, air) which then supplies the thermal energy to vaporize the material in question.

Thanks for reply downwardsfromzero...

Ive noticed a different effect vaping with my plenty vaporizer using .convection heat ..

Using a very tiny amount of [spice only] is hitting me way harder that it would with Emesh or just smoking?

vaped under 10 mgs last night [with my plenty pictured in post above]/..and was i surprised at the effects...!

[Even though a very small dose].. It hit me quite hard .. as i got a head rush that made me feel wobbily for about 3 seconds and sent me to lay down fast.,..it was cool and tasteless and very effective and visual..and it didnt look milky white....[like with E mesh] ..but a very light tastless grey colored vapor that seemed quite potent!

...[because this was a very small test dose it didnt last more than 15 to 20 minutes]

Is it correct to assume convection vaping [doesnt usually burn or waste spice]..is the most efficient and the more pure the vapor..the harder it hits?

[maybe someone else who has used ..volcano or plenty.. vaporizers could give their opinion?

So far from my second test .. using 10 mgs or less ..it seems extreemly potent! making me think it might be able to deliver 20 or 30 mgs within 2 or three hits using normal draws..

If this potency is true... 20 or 30 mgs might be too potent for a lot of people .. vaping [straight spice] with convection heat!

Great to see that experimentation still are going on regaring effective, respectfull, safe, sound and stylish ways of vaping the crystals!

I'm also on the convection track. Since I started using a Glass Bat VaporGenie I feel that this is my way (for now). I've been using a alcohol burner/candle and that together with the ceramic disc in the GBVG and the spice melted on a metal pad (drip pad) behind it.
But I've been somewhat concerned with breathing in the vapors from the ethanol combustion. I cant get hold of (easily) 96% ethanol without additives (bitter agents and other stuff) and I also feel that the combustion is perhaps not the best, (perhaps) directly inhaling Carbon monoxide is not my thing.

So I got a electric hot air gun to replace the ethanol candle and have now perhaps 4 evenings with that (with around 3-4 drip pads each time). To se the model do a internet search for 'micro hot air gun 8858'. It's ugly, probably made under not so great conditions in china (but what isn't?), and has it's sides. But it works!

I removed the ceramic disc from the GBVG and put a nozzle on the gun so that all air is directed towards the spice on the drip pad. You can adjust the temperature from 100 to 480 Celsius and also the airflow. But they are connected so you can't have the lowest airflow if you are going above 300C. And you want to do that.

So I've read your post starway7 on the plenty vaporizer and as I understand it you draw the air yourself. This is not the case with 'micro hot air gun 8858', it blows the air into you. Not so that you feel like a balloon, it's quite manageable, but I would prefer to breath myself.

Is has a few other down sides as far as I see it and I can write then up if someone is interested. But one question to you starway7 how is the air from the plenty? I feel that the heated air is not so nice, like breathing from a hairdryer I'm sure it has something to do with the heating element (thin wires that get really hot) and that dries the air and so on.. Or?

But still, convection is great!

the plenty is temperature controled .. produces the same high quality vapor as its big cousin [the volcano]

The air going through the water pipe is cool not hot at all!

The vapor quality is so pure ...it a bit scarey!

it takes ..[ much less spice!] to get the results as from other vapes...

It would be easy for some to over do it with this rig...10 mgs hits like 25 mgs...convection really surprised me!

It does seem like you're getting a maximally efficient vaporization with convection using the Plenty vape.

Your thread inspired me to tinker with an old pen vape although it isn't nearly as powerful as the Plenty vape. I was able to notice mild effects with a 5 mg test dose using a dosing puck cobbled together from pipe screens. Subsequent pre-dosing with harmalas actually abolished any effect from this small dose in a follow-up test - something that Jonathan Ott also noted with oral dosage, apparently. Sooner or later, I'll 10mg without the harmalas and report back.

Meanwhile, I'll see if I can get my e-mesh unit to act as a convection only device in combination with these dosing pucks. It should be considerably more powerful than my unbranded convection vape pen.

Unfortunately, my camera is broken so pics are unavailable.

Hi downwardsfromzero.. It shure surprised me the other night the way it hit me..it was such a low dose..it seemed to vape every molecule ..[no waste] and it hit me pretty hard as i felt wobbily for 3 minutes.. and i got some nice CeVs .[ but being a low dose of spice only].. it only lasted
about 15 minutes...

the vapor seemed very light kinda greyish colored..like breathing air with a slight flavor ..but it had strong effect!!

It does take about 3 medium tokes to get it delivered..but the couple minutes it takes is overshadowed by its purity and potency and not burning any spice!

my test was only 10 mgs or less of spice! imagine what a pile 20 or 30 mg pile of white crystal would perform.. ! that much would probibly send you into a breakthrough with that purity even if it took 3 tokes to get you there !

the potency of convection vaped spice is a little scary if you are not used to it...

I think most mods with... e mesh do a pretty good job of vaping ..

..but unless its one of the few mods that perform acuratly in temp control mode..it going to vape a certain percentage of the spice ok and burn some of it also..



downwardsfromzero..do you remember the test i did and you tryed with rue seed..trying to vaporize a seed on top of E mesh?[remember it burned the seed to a crisp !]

Just this morning i thought up another test... i think you will be interested in hearing about...

Just using logic..i believe that it may be possible to ..[ to vape whole rue seed]. in any amount.. using a convection vape! because it heats with hot air and seed is not in contact with the heat source..

Im going to try this idea in my plenty..and if it works ill know by how i feel..or how the trip goes when vaping spice on top of it..

Im not positive ..but i think rue seed will vaporize unburnt in a plenty heating chamber ..

I hope your test works ..but using e mesh..you wouldnt you have to suspend the spice up off the heating mesh?..

It will be nice if it works in a true convection vape ..because that gives you a way to adjust the trip say if you mixed some spice with so many seeds!

I entirely plan to support my mesh puck above the heating mesh somehow. It's about 6mm diameter and 3mm thick, should fit into the airflow chain somewhere reasonably neatly.

The puck itself is formed from a number of 5mm pipe screens wrapped in a 10mm pipe screen by jamming it through a suitable tube and then pressing the edges down to close it in. I've wrapped a loop of wire around it for easy handling and so that it can hang up easily for dosing with a tincture.

I'll see about forming a tiny basket from another pipe screen for some rue seeds because tbh I completely forgot about that vaping test, along with about 95% of the other things that seemed like a good idea at the time. ADHD

it must be my imagination?

I just vaped only about 40 rue seeds in my plenty..

And i did get some light visable vapor...then things look different in my kitchen... i looked around and im seeing light swaying of the shelves over the sink gently swaying kinda like when your comming down from acid...

i think the plenty did give me some vapor!

going to take a hit soon of spice and see...

!!!! It worked great!!

This is a possible new discovery? ....Im still realing from the experiance !

15 minutes ago i vaped 40 rue. seeds.then took two small hits of spice..

This was the most intense CEV experiance ive ever had from just a small bit of spice!

As i said above..i vaporized about 40 rue seed in my plenty.[covered the seed with a stainless wet pad ...and after vaping the seed...it seemed i was experiancing low level open eye visuals ..as the cabnets and other objects in my kitchen looked different..

The shelves and other objects looked to be breathing and moving gently like on a last stage lsd trip!

Im not shure but it seemed i was getting light visuals from the rue seed vaped in my plenty!

Then to be more shure i took one hit from a pre loaded EMeSh loaded only with 10 or 12 mgs of spice..

The first hit came on gently and felt great!

But then The second hit... look out!

I layed back my face and hand felt a nice vibration...closed my eyes and observed the most colorfull universe packed full of multi colored jewls everywhere! .. i was in an endless spinning universe with my eyes closed..

after close to an hour...I aborterd the trip a little early to send this report i was soo happy it was a great experiance this endless spinning universe melded into the music playing the galexcys full of spinning jewls were never ending!


I believe the ..[vaporized rue seed] was directly responsible for the beautyfull experiance..

Again ..with my eyes closed on a low dose of spice..i observed a heavenly never ending universe also hearing cosmic vibrational sounds images i cant remember all of them!

one of the Nicest experiance ive had yet in all these years!

I think the way to get the goodies from rue seed is to vaporize the goods right off the whole seed...

I think a quality vaporizer can unload the actives without damaging them through a precise vaporization..because ive vaped many times from the e mesh and had ok experiances but never this nice!

This may be a breakthrough way to use rue.. !


in pictures below.[on a pc screen]...its ..[a little harder to see] the difference but notice the vaped seed on left..and the un vaped seed on the right!

the vaped seed on left is much lighter colored compleatly striped of its goodies!

the un vaped seed darker in color..

the vapor ..gently but compleatly... stripped .. from from the outer skin of only [40 small rue seeds]... is not a huge cloud..but a lighter whispy vapor that when inhaled is quite effective! once dmt is vaped on top of it!

in real time here...When i shine a bright light on booth groups of seed the vaped seed looks dry and almost bone white in color!



the un vaped seed looks much darker! [the 40 seed after being vaped now weigh only 0.092mgs] only a fraction of one gram! that small amount of vaped rue actives [merged with under 10 mgs of vaped spice.]]produced a lot of solid colorful CEV and OEv instantly lasted about an hour!

the vaped seed has been striped of its goods very cleanly!.. and compleatly ..! without harming the rue actives!!

bottom two pictures...vaped seed...and un vaped seed ..photo taken under bright flash light...

zoom the pictures..and see the difference!..[this vaporization approach may also work with granulated caapi vine!

Great finding starway! This might open some new ways, like putting the rue seeds on a different level above the spice, so it's taking the most hot air.

Here it says that 225 °C is optimal for vaporization of harmalas. Perhaps it's different for whole seeds.

It's also interesting when you think of the experiments with dark roasting rue seeds. In this thread it seems like something change from dark roasting. A strong suggestion is that the heat is breaking down (or vaporizing) the harmaline leaving the harmine.

Up for more experiments!

yes..Hi murklan.. I think this idea of rue seed vaporization can be used with good results !

It surprised me how well it worked...

the rue seed ..by itself.. acted a bit halucinegenic? on first try..

I guess it could be tryed in an E mesh or any heating chamber...but the seed will have to be in a special ..[holder or basket] off of the E mesh... because it would toast the seed and ruin it...

dark roasting is an interesting experiment...

cheers.

Second try with [convection vaped rue seed]...[another 50 or 60 tiny seeds vaped!]

Was a success again!

I noticed something this time [remembering on .[first try].. there was very little visable wisps of vapor] but still great visuals with eyes closed!

But this time ..on second try...[i couldent see any vapor?].and was a little concerned! ...

i thought to myself...is it vaping the seed?.. i cant see any vapor?

but i quickly realized i could taste the rue vapor very easily!

So ..[just like first try]...when i took two small hits from my took my E mesh ..first hit
felling good !.... And the second hit.. put me into a very visual hyperspace with eyes closed...i

was traveling a million miles through free floating objects of all shapes and sizes!

The normal sense of time dident exist!

I remember seeing a being with light beams circling around his head!

This rue vapor...is almost invisable to the eyes.. but you can taste it very styrongly!

And when i hit the pre loaded E mesh.. [again with only ] 3 or 4 drops of spice tincture...[equaling very little spice..[maybe 8 or 9 mgs?]...i still got a nice 45 minute journey that was awesome!

I can only fantisize what a ..[good 20 or 30 mgs of spice].. whould do with this vapor.


so the rue seed vapor doesnt need to be visable!! ..as long as you can taste it! ..it going into your system..and making the spice..even in wimpy amounts produce awesone Closed eye visuals!

I know the rue vapor is responsible..because ive vaped spice a lot of times with mixed results..but never a sweet journey like i had two tonights in a row now!

i guess a quality vaporizer is capable of vaporizing the thin outer coating of rue seed compleatly and gently.. without damaging the seed or the actives!

and delivering the nearly invisable vapor with a nice taste..to make your spice work beautyfuully!

if anyone trys this method please post your results!

remember you dont need 20 or 30 mgs of spice to get a nice 45 minute trip ..with the rue vapor almost5 any small amount of spice can be very nice!

This vaped rue seed method.. might be great option for those who vape straight spice..and find the experiance an unforgiving canon blast shot into hyperspace.. too quick unforgiving and hard to remember..

The vaped rue..[before or with spice method ].. should mellow out the the blast off.. and alow for awesome visuals and more abuility to navagate in inner space.. and take back more memories when back to baseline..

This more mellow way to do spice.. should also reduce pre flight anxiety for many!.. because at the right safe dosage ballence.. it alows a more gentle entry into hyperspace allowing for a more rewardable experiance!!

The vividness of the visuals could be great for artists who want to put their visions on canvas!


[also i want to add...2/16/2022...

Ive used rue sublingually and had rue tea many times..ive even ...ive also smoked rue seed....

none of these methods has performed as well ..[ as properly vaped whole rue seed].. has for great closed eye visuals..and open eye visuals...

Ive never used more than two grams of ..[rue seed for tea] and results were ok.. but often not that great for visuals because often the visuals would come on strong at first... but fade within 5 to 10 minutes...

1...using nasty tasting rue tea.. you need atleast 1 to 4 grams max to get results with spice.. and i believe the body destroys a lot of the rue actives on its way through the digestve tract ...

2....smoking rue seed..gives ok results.. but takes a good amount of seed which gets partialy destroyed by the flame .this way [combustion]..delivers a lot of unhealthy carcinagens also into the lungs...

3...sublingual use of rue seed works fairly fast and well ..[chew up a small amount of seed] and hold under toung...it easily enters the blood stream this way befor vaping spice..
The only problem with this method.. [for me] is i get a nice super relaxation effect once i vape some spice on top of it...[like an invisable lead blanket]... lays over my entire body!.. from head to toe]
a nice experiance with an ok head space...but the visuals seem lacking??

4.. But in my experiance... ive noticed that first..[properly vaporized whole rue seed]...
.[ then vaping spice]...the visuals come on fast and strong every time so far!! closed eye and open eye visuals are colorfull and seem different every time ..for me!!
[emotionmal content overflowing!]

the experiance for me...is like observing a multi colored jeweled universe .floating dimentional windows ..with colors unimaginable in the waking world..

then in second test ..i was flying through a living universe of gemetric objects of all shapes and sizes colors un imaginable ..flying past these objects was simmilar to flying through an asteroid belt with a space ship!.[i even got a glimps of a celestrial being with beams of light circling his head! ..and this 45 minute experiance was only on a tiny amount of spice!... 10 mgs or less!!

I try to imagine! what it would be like if i simply boosted my spice to 15 or 20 mgs or used a little more rue vapor!

in my experiance..im saying that properly vaporized whole rue seed...with a little spice vapor on top.. is like a visual doorway to any where you want to go!

for me... It felt like an instant 45 minute vacation.. that took me on a 10 year adventure ..even after coming back to baseline... i felt i was transformed in some way.. and began to see todays reality as an illusion..as the budists call it when they experiance.. the ..clear light dream!

this visual experiance has happened two ..[times in a row] [test one and test two]..and i think and hope it will continue to happen continually

test 3..soon..

Hi everybody

Just my two cents. Like starway said the vapor is almost invisible.
So if you vape your harmalas be careful
Also if you like mj put some harmalas on top and try that.
Total relaxation.

Just tried vaping whole rue seeds and it definetly works great and tastes way better than smoking them.

Thank you for sharing and have a gud one

Just tryed vaped rue and spice again...

Worked very well! This time i used 50 seeds

[made a little pipe screen basket to hold the spice infused seed].. I dropered 6 drops of spice
tincture [right onto the seeds...then allowed the alcohol to evaporate and the spice to also dry a while...

because the seeds [needed a little more heat].. Set the plenty on 7...and when it clicked off...

I then took a couple hits could clearly taste the rue vapor...and the spice ...

It was very smooth and came quite strong ...for the small amount of spice used...
maybe.. [10 or 12 mgs?] ...not shure... because it was spice suspended in alcohol ...[so many mgs per drop?]

[...one could easily just put some crystal spice on top of the seed ..would work well]

after the second toke i felt it climbing on me fast but the rue smoothed it out..

I didnt even hold the vapor in longer than 5 to 8 seconds... then as i let it out.. i could see more ..spice rue vapor.. wisping out of the mouth peice.. [i hadent taken in all of it..i thought]

Became very visual....very fast! i could defenantly feel how the rue smoothed out the spice..like spreading butter on peice of toast!

Had i used 20 or 30 mgs of spice ....i would have been in a far away land for a lot longer!
... but this was just a test ..so i used a small dose of spice...

[i still got a little over an hour trip on this low dose of spice !]

this was done using my [converted] storz .. Bickel.. [plenty convection vaporizer]..
pictured below.. .it worked great again! !

i expect to get a ...plenty...[bowl reducer soon].. and it should perform better!

Great to hear starway7! To combine the seeds and spice directly in a convection device sounds good.

But have you tried the method that you can read about here. He lightly heat the seeds (mainly to dry them completely) then grind them against a mesh to collect just the outer parts of the seeds (the hulls). When smoking I can imagine that this makes a good difference, not having to inhale the plant oils and other things within the kernel, but when vaping like you are doing this is perhaps not an issue.

But who knows, mixing the rue powder with DMT and vaporize that might work very well. I think I'll do a test

the method sounds ok...[if you have no other way]... but..it cant lift all of the ..[very thin].. outer coating off of the rue seed gently and compleatly as vaporization does...

[vaporization]... actually sweats off the delecate outer coating of rue actives very compleatly ..without damaging it...turning it into an inhalable vapor..


[[i wish there was a way to box up the vapor for oral use but i havent found it..]


[maybe vapor could be freeze dryed in mid air? then stored as a powder?

cheers.

Well, it's called Dry distillation

So now I tried to vape whole rue seeds. I thought that it might work well in my Dynavap M (a non electrical dry herb vaporizer that works by applying heat from a flame/torch). I used 50 seeds like you did starway7, it was about 175 mg. The dynavap clicks at a temperature around 200C and I reheated 6 cycles I think. Got a bit of taste, the seeds expanded and I could hear some of them to crack.

But I didn't feel much effects and vaping 20mg DMT after did not get much extended. So I guess I have to do it another way, or to heat the dynavap more.

Hi Murklan...If you were at 200 C ...it should have been hot enough...the flame vape may have heated it too fast and destroyed some of the actives.../?

you probibly got some rue alcaloids but also burnt some of it...

I know my .. plenty vape ... works with the seeds but i usually set it at max no 7 setting.. 202 C ...

My vaporizer is a ..true electric desk top..convection vape.. and it gently removes the rue seed coating from the seed..it sort of sweats it off...
[it takes 2 or 3 minutes gently removing the seed coating ]

there are photos in my posts above showing rue seed that is bare of its coating...and another very clere picture of rue seed that has not been vaped...
[go to that post and zoom the picture...the lighter colored vaped seed is [puffed up and gently stripped of its coating!] [look carefully at the seed photos above in post 10...]..

I have to wait about 2 minutes more or less for the temperature light to click off to draw the vapor that is nearly invisable but it can be tasted ...and felt...

if your vaporizer heats much faster than .[[two or three minutes].. and is a conduction vaporizer..that may explain why it didnt work the same..

[Conduction vaporizers].. have trouble maintaining even heating..[thats why many Direct E Meshs have so much vape temp problems ] the temp on conduction vapes are often unstable].
.and it may heat the seed too fast actually destroying some of its actives...

my convection vape works great for rue seed..[changa.[straight dmt]or dry herbs]...but it takes a 2 or 3 minute wait for the desired temperature to click off the light...

[in ..[potnobles].. post above]..he tryed vaping rue seed with his..[ plenty vaporizer] and had success..

My vaporizer is also a ... storz and bickel [plenty ] desktop vaporizer same as [potnoble ] has..

if your vape is a .[conduction vape]...that may be why it didnt work the same....

convection vaporization.. will remove it all...and burn nothing!