For a couple of months over the summer, I curtailed my kratom regimen for pain management to see if rue would be a reasonable (and significantly more frugal) alternative. I poured a pint of boiling water over 10 grams of plain unroasted rue each night, then sweetened it in the morning (leaving the seeds in the tea filter to continue brewing until all tea was consumed) and drank it throughout the work day.

I enjoyed the effects but it didn’t take enough of an edge off my pain, so I’ve had to return to the kratom. I would like to try the rue regimen again, from time to time, but was curious about this whole roasting thing. I didn’t get much nausea or find the taste of the sweetened tea too disagreeable - are there significant benefits beyond these?

Just wanted to give an update. So i previously roasted and brewed up 20 grams, and the tea was just fine, tasted fine, effects were fine/clean, worked great. Brewing up so more today, this time 40 grams, which seemed to dark roast fine, and so far all indications point towards it being successful, i'll give an update later tonight once it's all brewed up and concentrated down and i take a dose.

@Roninsina, taste aside, properly brewed Rue tea can be quite purgative because of the Harmaline content primarily, Harmaline is a much stronger purgative than Harmine. Aside from that though, the overall benefits of dark roasted Rue is that the Harmaline content is gone, which cleans up the bodyload and side-effect profile, it's much more manageable, clean feeling and isn't rough feeling like the raw Rue/Harmaline is.

Thanks for the response ShamenStamen I think the tea I was drinking was pretty well extracted, especially by the end of the day. I never drank more than an ounce or so at a time, which was probably the main reason I was able to avoid the heavier body load. I’m guessing I wouldn’t see the real benefits of roasting until I ingested a larger dose all at once. I’ll have to try it and see.

[[[ Brewed it up, checked the fluorescence... and there she was, the Blue.!]]]


with all these reports of the dark roast being so ..[clear headed! ...that sounds similar to THH effects

i know the amount of THH is small in rue but ..who knows for sure how this process has effected the seed?



....maybe iliminating harmaline ...makes the small amount of THH in rue more noticable!

Thing is though, it's not THH i'm feeling, it's Harmine.

At first i tryed to toast the rue seed in a glass jar with plastic over the top...

In the microwave... the glass got so hot after a few minutes ..was afraid the glass might melt or explode?

so i just added water to the very hot rue seed and returned it to microwave to brew a tea,,,


I just brewed one gram... [whole uncrushed rue seed]... in distilled water..using a microwave...added a small amount of white vinegar 3 to 4 minutes rapid boil...


Just took three very small sips from 3/4 full shot glass....[very strong tasting!]
[drank about half of the shot glass]

im sensitive to rue... i started feeling it within 8 minutes...

trying to see if using microwave makes a stronger tea!


after you roast your seed ..you may try brewing the tea in a microwave and notice if the tea is stronger..




[[[after vaping]
[yes the three small sips of tea were very efective! with only one small vape hit...]]

i layed down closed eyes and it was like dreaming while awake... microwaves heat diferently...
than ovens ...and stove tops...

it seemed like using the microwave made the tea twice as strong!.. but needs more testing to be shure..

using crushed seed might be stronger...

Interesting thread for sure. More experiments in toasting, brewing and extractions needed. I'll do more pretty soon.

But first my most recent experience from yesterday night.

I've dark roasted seeds some week ago and now run 4 g in a manual coffee grinder.
Simmer for 25 min in 200ml water.
Strain through a cotton ball. Went fast and easy. Was now ~125 ml.
Drank it. Quite good tasting without any sweetener. Like a bitter coffee.
Did other things, preparing for the evening, for about 2h.
Then took 20 mg extracted harmalas sublingual (the idea was to have more of a mixture of harmalas not only harmine from the roasted seeds. Waited ¨~15 min. meditated and then vaped the first of two 20mg DMT liquid pads.

Well... Wow! I have to do this more times to really 'understand' whats going on since there were several new factors to consider this time.
* It was the first tryout of a new batch of MHRB that I just extracted (no re-x)
* It was the first time combining roasted rue tea with sublingual harmalas.
* I had taken some supplements earlier that day (lion's mane extract, korean ginseng, bacopa monnieri, rhodiola extract, huperzia serrata extract. All in 3 capsules called 'Neurostim' from Mind Nutrition)

But the experience... Well in a way it reminded me about the other time I took 4g of this roasted rue tea and vaped some DMT. Very clear minded and present. Not much CEV at all, not a 'exapanded mind' in the way I'm use to. The deep and big thoughts, the force that makes you surrender and taking you to places. And later the reflective mood. No, this is different.

To begin with after first inhaling I thought, 'what it this?' Have I extracted something else from this new plant. I did not recognize the DMT/harmalas headspace. No real patterns when I closed my eye as it usually happens. No heightened awareness in that special way.
Just very.. different. It was coming on strong and I found myself with open eyes just looking around in my room, wanting to take it all in. The room was really different but not distorted with colors or patterns, it was more like it was under water. The air was fluid, I was like in a oil painting I thought. Everything that was my world was in this room. It went on, longer that I'm use to and all the time I didn't feel like closing my eye (that normally happens) but to experience this presence. In this way it reminded me of the last time with the roasted tea. Very clear headed, just present in the moment, in the place. This lasted for around 45 min. I then took the other 20mg DMT pad.

I would way that this is a unusual combination (will try the newly extracted DMT to see if that in itself is any different). However I miss some parts that I can get when taking the full harmala extracts, mostly that my mind then really goes away from my ordinary consciousness and that I get a stronger emotional reaction.

Really interesting and thank you ShamensStamen for this thread!

All of you who are testing out this dark roast rue brew method - if at all possible, could you please check the blacklight fluorescence of the brew before consumption. It should glow blue, and noticeably more weakly than the strong, bright yellow-green of the harmaline-rich raw brews. That way we nkow we're definitely coomparing like with like.


Working with the dark roasted seeds for a while has helped me realise what I like about the raw seed and, more particularly, the lightly toasted material. There's a more thorough intoxication that comes with the harmaline that to me feels more medicinal than the harmine on its own, but that can also be rather overwhelming. This is (mostly) rue-only brews that I'm talking about here.

This has led me most recently to blending two parts of dark roasted seeds with one part of raw seeds in a brew in order to produce the desired balance of qualitative effects. It should be clear that with a little experience in varying the proportions of raw and toasted seeds we can easily tune the experience to a personal optimum.

My thoughts exactly. Definitely need to check the fluorescence to make sure, i've been checking the fluorescence on every single roasting i've been doing lately, all have been blue so far, even brewed up a fresh raw Rue brew to compare, and yeah, definitely blue whereas the raw is green, and the fluorescence of the dark roast is definitely a dimmer glow compared to the bright green glow of the raw, but when concentrated it does glow pretty brightly of blue but still not as brightly as the green glow of Harmaline.

I too have noticed with even light roasts that i've been missing some of the stuff i get from raw seed/Harmaline, it does have some things to offer that Harmine doesn't, but at the same time i like aspects of each and sometimes prefer a more Harmine-dominant effect. Ideally, i was thinking the same thing about mixing some of the raw with some of the roasted, that way you can control the Harmaline content/dosage. This definitely opens up new areas of exploration for people who are used to just raw Rue. People think Rue has to be rough and "inferior" to Caapi but imo Rue can be so much more than people are aware of.

Also just wanna add that it's worth playing around with the heat setting and duration of roasting, i can't be sure yet, but i do think if you over roast it it may break down some of the background compounds or it might lose a bit of potency, but it's hard to tell because it just feels so much cleaner than raw Rue. So far though it seems to be working fine, even if i over roast, people just wanna make sure they're not burning things or roasting them too too much.

Also wanna add that yesterday i did two other 7.5 gram batches, one at the 5 setting on the stove, and one on the 4 setting, the one on the 4 setting didn't give off any smoke that i could tell, and the seeds didn't pop at all that i could tell, yet when brewed up the fluorescence was just as blue as previous roasts, and the one i did on the 5 setting gave off a little bit of smoke and all the seeds popped, also when on the 5 setting (or over) the tea definitely has a better taste/smell, whereas the one on the 4 setting had a little more of a Rue taste/smell.

Yes. I've also checked the fluorescence of my roasted brews and found it to be blue towards cyan colored. Quite faint compared to the raw (or extracted) seeds but still remarkable.

I'd like to do a crude extraction, without manske, of the roasted seeds. This way I could use this together with my other extraction of Harmaline/Harmine and se how dirrefent proportions work.

This is really a curios area for further experiments.
Having 4g of roasted rue as tea + 20mg extract sublingual (with DMT) felt like some other drug and as I wrote I was quite perplexed and surprised. The clearness together will full immersion was something extra.

I like the idea of finding out how time, temperature, color, smoke, smell and taste correlate to the constituents and effects.

I have equipment for roasting under somewhat controlled forms. But the thing is that I then would have to do around 800g reds at a time. Anyone up for sharing?

So you get a bluish color under blacklight...

i know there are claims of removing Harmaline...but really...could you just be making the seed weaker because of the aplyed heat?

What do you concider the main benifit of roasting rue seed??

Ive seen reports from some using the roast seed ..with spice..people saying.. they are not getting

... anyclosed eye visuals...[that cant be a good point? ]] most people want CEVs and OEVs...i know i like CEVs and OEVs...

Just trying to figure out what are the main benifits of roasted rue seed??/

For the record starway, i don't get closed eyed or open eyed visuals from DMT, whether using raw Rue, roasted Rue, pure Harmine, Harmine/Harmaline mix, or full spectrum Rue extract, also don't get any when using Caapi. I do however, get some in the way of visuals when using Moclobemide to orally activate DMT, both open and closed eyed. To me, Harmalas make things more physical, so i feel like it diverts the "energy" from the visuals, into the body. But i use high to heavy dosages of Rue/Harmalas, i've read that for a more visual experience, you want a lower dosage of Harmalas and a bit of a high dose of DMT, idk.

As for the roasting, it does seem to decrease potency, but that's just because the Harmaline isn't there. If there's Harmaline in there, you can definitely tell, i know i can, i'm very familiar with Harmaline, and Harmine, and with the dark roasted Rue, there's no Harmaline, i can't feel it, i just feel the Harmine and background compounds, and i feel the Harmine's duration of action and such, but if Harmaline was in the mix the duration would be a little different and i'd have effects that i get from Harmaline, but i'm not getting that with roasted seed, the roasted seed is definitely cleaner, gentler, and Harmine-dominant, no Harmaline that i can tell.

Do we think we could heat impure harmine FB (which glows green) to break down any harmaline and get the blue glow?

Possibly, idk though, it would make sense, might be worth a try.

So over the last few days or so i've been experimenting with roast temp/time. I can definitely tell that with the dark roast there's no Harmaline content at all, and with light to medium roasts some Harmaline can remain. If there's some Harmaline in the mix, the fluorescence should look a bit more turquoise-like with light to medium roasts, or more of that green glow like raw brews, whereas the dark roast should be more of a blue color, paler than that of the green or turquoise colors. There may also be the possibility of roasting too much and in turn degrading the background compounds, or possibly even the Harmine, i'm not sure yet.

As for the taste, i find dark roast tastes so much better, whereas the light to medium roasts can still retain some of that Rue flavor and some bitterness. The dark roast though, extremely palatable.

But yeah, dark roast is pretty cool, but so too can the light to medium roasts, i personally like some Harmaline in the mix, so light to medium roasts, or mixing dark roast and raw seeds, may be better for certain things, but the dark roast feels too clean to not like, just depends on what you're going for.

I still haven't yet done an extraction, but i'm hoping to get around to that in the next few weeks. I'm pretty sure that as long as the seeds are roasted properly, a Harmine-dominant full spectrum extract (without Harmaline), or pure Manske'd Harmine, is possible.

This brings to mind an idea for a series of sublimation experiments, controlling for pressure, temperature and atmospheric composition.


Hehe, yeah - I've gone back to including some light-roasted material for the harmaline but flavorwise it's been a real struggle. Even in coffee it's difficult to get it down any other way than chugging it, and I'm someone who's generally very tolerant of bitter tastes.

Curious, though, that harmaline seems to me more medicinal somehow. Perhaps it has something to do with activation of the somatic bitterness receptors that have been found distributed throughout the body. Bitter herbs have a long tradition of health-tonic usage which would be supported by this finding. (I wish I could be a little less vague about this; there's got to be a reference for this somewhere.)

Although i'd say might wanna try it with Harmine HCL, instead of freebase, since HCL/salt forms are more stable than freebase, freebase may break down upon exposure to heat.

Yeah i'm definitely enjoying this dark roast, but i agree that without the Harmaline, some things are indeed missing. Personally i enjoy a bit of Harmaline, so i think light to medium roasts would be of a fuller effect than dark roast, but dark roast can be pretty full on in it's own way, been dosing 7.5 grams the last few days or so, it feels pretty good but definitely way lighter/cleaner feeling than the raw/with Harmaline. I guess it just comes down to what you're wanting at the moment, which it's pretty cool imo that Rue can be so dang versatile, we can use it raw, we can roast it and change the chemical composition, we can extract from it (full spectrum or isolated Harmalas), or even convert Harmaline to THH. I mean Harmalas are some pretty fascinating compounds imo.

For me though, i think what i'd probably rather do, is make dark roast Rue tea so the taste of the tea is good, and then encapsulate some extract or raw seed or even lightly roasted seed and take that with my dark roast tea. I don't imagine we'd need much of the raw or lightly roasted seed, or extract, for enough Harmaline content.

I'll get back to this topic tomorrow after a good nights sleep. Have tried some combinations and I'm a bit surprised.