Its interesting because you say that this combo is most similar to high doses of mescaline. But in comparing it to mescaline (and in your description in general) the emphasis seems to be almost entirely on the visual effects that are generated. It seems as though what you are really saying is that this combo of THH and sublingual DMT brings about many visual effects which are similar to the visual effects of high doses of mescaline.

But are there other similarities beyond the visual aesthetics? Does this combo induce the heart opening and mental clarity of a mescaline trip? Is this a visual fireworks show without the deeper, healing elememts of the cactus experience? Or are they there as well? Looking beyond just the visual aspects, are there other similarities to mescaline or not?

Thanks for the extensive write up in both your original post and in this new summary

So THH may prolong the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake. Does it also increase its strength?

Have you tried sublingual | High Pobability of Braindamage by Creepy non tested Drugs (forced by scammer 69ron) | DMT without THH? If so could you explain the difference?

Is there a difference between sublingual Harmaline (freebase or HCL) and sublingual Harmaline complexed with | High Pobability of Braindamage by Creepy non tested Drugs (forced by scammer 69ron) |?

Why do you choose to take the THH orally instead of sublingually? If it doesn't work well sublingually, could you complex it with | High Pobability of Braindamage by Creepy non tested Drugs (forced by scammer 69ron) | as well?

The 10-12 drops of water.. Drop volume is pipette size dependent. What happens if you add too much or little water to the mix?

I love readying your positive vibe, but traditionally the compounds at hand are used for healing work. As Grey Fox mentions above you mainly talk about feeling euphoric from the visual spectacle (and enjoying listening to music), but is there a deeper layer to the experience? Or is it "just" a prolonged DMT vape session?


Meaning water pulled tea (from both light and force plants) is the "deepest" experience.
Less deep is pharma (isolated DMT + isolated Harmaline).
So.. Even less deep (as "shallow" as smoalking) is sublingual (| High Pobability of Braindamage by Creepy non tested Drugs (forced by scammer 69ron) |) DMT with oral THH?

Or is the 'fun and games' you describe your default experience which you also have with tea etc? If so, nothing wrong with that. Just trying to understand the difference of this route better. I actually wish I had more positivity myself instead of the apocalyptic climate crisis and civilization collapse world view I get with shrooms and aya lately.

Your preferred THH dosage is 300mg. This is a high dose..

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...mp;m=1112467#post1112467

.. I would advice anyone new to THH to start lower and working your way up.



At the aya ceremonies I've been everyone usually takes 2-3 dosages, some take 4. Each dose lasts a certain duration. Two doses spread out over several hours are not the same a single dose twice as large (as you seem to say 150 + 150 = 300).

You also can't say that 300mg THH is "a normal dose by experienced aya drinkers" as..

If Caapi contains +-2% Harmalas, 50g of Vine contains +-1000mg of Harmalas. Meaning, one dose of Caapi brew contains 5 doses of Pharmauasca! The alkaloid content of Caapi varies so much that it’s impossible to say what’s going on. Some speculate that Caapi brew has something in it that slows or regulates the absorption of Harmalas.

But all in all, great to hear that | High Pobability of Braindamage by Creepy non tested Drugs (forced by scammer 69ron) | complexed DMT works sublingually and that THH combines well!

Thanks for the quick reply ava69.

To summaries your replies (orange) into my questions (quotes):


Without THH the DMT visuals are weaker (darker colored and less interesting).


THH adds more potent visuals, music and beauty enhancement, mescaline euphoria, longer duration.


Complexed harmine masks the taste and helps freebase harmine to absorb better.


It gives an identical effects as high dose of cactus tea, infinitely beautiful, brilliantly penetrating and no sedation.

Some more questions:


Is it because oral THH lasts a longer duration and you only need to take it ones? Personally I'd prefer to make one mix of DMT, Harmine and THH and place that under the tongue. Or would that be too much volume making it harder to hold for 15 minutes?


Is the amount of water the minimum required to dissolve the substances? Adding more will make it more difficult to keep the solution under the tongue? What happens when you evaporate the water after complexing? Will the DMT - | High Pobability of Braindamage by Creepy non tested Drugs (forced by scammer 69ron) | bond break again? Making it not water soluble anymore?

Got it, makes sense

I'm thinking that my attempt of this route would be a lower dose of:

+00 min: 50mg THH (synth from Harmaline) taken orally
+45 min: 20mg Harmala-HCL, or complexed freebase Harmala (Rue extract) taken sublingually
+45 min: 60mg complexed DMT taken sublingually

Then adjust THH and DMT dosages according to my sensitivity.

Last questions:


Would the visuals stay dull? If not I dont mind the shorter duration as 45 min of vape intensity sounds more than enough. I understand that THH is much better, but I'd need to make some first.


Also 1:1 molar weight? Which is?


Isn't this the same substance? The abbreviation for 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin is HP-β-CD, aka: | High Pobability of Braindamage by Creepy non tested Drugs (forced by scammer 69ron) |, correct?

Great, adding 'make some THH' to my to do list hahah


Well I'll try more THH (100mg) and some less DMT (50mg) for starters then.


Got it.


Thanks!


Good to know. I'll see which one I can purchase the easiest.

Keep you updated

Ive been researching and found some info claiming caapi leafe contains a fair amount of THH as well as the vine..maybe more thh than the vine!

I have some old caapi leaf from 2015 .. [called black caapi] .. im boiling some tea right now...

About a large tea bags worth dry leafe..i took the half brewed pot under black light and it has the prettiest ..[pale blue color]! [the same color of THH!]

I know from experiance caapi leaf tea is much milder tasting than rue tea..if fact it doesnt have the bitterness that rue has... a little honey and it would tast great!

This time im adding a dash of white vinegar to pull out more actives...

Shroombee..and others interested might want to get some caapi leafe to experament with its mild fairly safe and could contain the THH we are looking for!

So many years back extracting actives from leaf was not working that great about 6 nyears ago..but now someomne may have found a better way to get the light out of the leaf/?

If not just brewing some crude tea will suffice for now...

I may try some tonight with a little SPC!

Ok after dosing a light amount of caapi leafe tea...

first putting a little under my tounge for ten minutes... hit the vape pipe and come up was smooth very much like rue!

Also i noticed the hint of light OEVs and light CEVs...

that was just a tiny amount under tounge..

Then with more than half of my spice vaped..[with some left ]

I then drank most of the tea and waited 40 minutes...

I did not feel the heavy [rue body high] but felt more clear headed ..

After drinking the bigest part of the caapi leaf tea...waiting 40 minutes hit what was left in the chore boy pad and held it in long as posible and exhaled..

Layed back shut eyes..and was getting stronger CEVs..and was feeling very relaxed similar to rue but more clear headed...

My CEVs were comming fairly constant for about 15 to 20 minutes much better after drinkingb the tea...

Every thing here was low dose...only 8 drops of spice tincture ..totally equaling only 16 to 20 mgs

and my hits were broken up ..not all at once....

If i had vaped it all at once after the tea..the CEVS would have been much more defined and lasted longer.i think..

must try the leafe tea again with higher dose of spice....

Compaired to rue...




Ther leafe tea was only slightly bitter but much more mild tasting compaired to rue..

The leafe brew with spice... left me feeling more clear headed although relaxed...

The leaf brew also put my body in a nice realaxation state [similar to rue only without the slugish tired feeling]

The leafe brew..also ..[[defenantly slowedf down my come up]].. much like rue does..there was no anxiety at all..

the caapi leaf tea wasnt all that concintrated... as i used a large tea bag amount of crushed leaves...and the spice dose was light....

Adding a dash of white vinegar to the tea brew i believe pulled actives more out!

I expect if i vape more spice...and make the leaf tea stronger..ill have more solid longer lasting CEVs and posibly OEVs!




Dorge
#10
Posted : 5/28/2010 3:44:51 AM
QUOTE

Chen Cho Dorge


Posts: 1781
Joined: 30-Dec-2008
Last visit: 25-Nov-2012
simple as that...
10x caapi leaf is the way to go. honestly... other harmalas will do though very well... rue extract, passion flower... but the leaf of the vine has thh and harmine in it and ...[[no harmaline]]... this makes it much less cloudy.
The more harmalas you add the less it is like smoking DMT and the more it is like ayahuasca.
Dorge is cooperatively owned and cooperatively run by various hyperspacial entities working as a collabertive sentience project for the betterment of sentient exploration.

Offical Changa web sitehttp://changa.esotericpharma.org/

My default way to make changa is to use full spectrum caapi leaf extract instead of isolated rue harmala extract.

Add 9 grams of caapi leaf into ethanol.
Leave it for a month in a closed jar, occasionally shaking.
Maybe a month could be reduced to 1-2 weeks.
Filter the leafs out and boil the ethanol down to a low volume.
Add 1 gram of new caapi leaf, evaporate the solution into it and dry.
Voila, 10x caapi leaf.

I first used to add 1:1 DMT to the leaf to smoke as changa from a bong.
Later when I started vaping the spice I smoked the 10x leaf without impregnated DMT from a bong.
Followed by vaping the DMT separately straight after from a different device.

In theory you could drink caapi leaf tea to combine with sublingual DMT. But the question is how much THH is present. As ada69 mentioned the blue could be harmine which glows the same color under UV. As it's easier to create leaf tea than create THH, if enough THH is present to work well that would be great. Instead of oral tea you could also administer a leaf extract tincture sublingually which might require up to 10x less THH for the same effect (maybe shorter lasting). The Harmine /Harmaline would already be in it as well. If 30-40mg of this would be enough, you could combine it with complexed DMT in one go. That is if the leaf contains a sufficient amount of THH. Being an organic product the % of actives will vary. Maybe use a leaf tinture sublingually for its full spectrum harmala effects, combined with additional THH.

Good to know. Thanks for the info!

I wonder why there would be such a strong similarity with cactus?

That is so interesting. I have always felt that there is something different about cactus compared to other psychedelics I've tried. It feels more "complete", so to speak. The visuals are beautiful and elaborate. But the transformation of my headspace and bodyspace back to a simpler, clearer, more connected, more in tune, healing, ancestral feeling sphere of extisence. With cactus I am one foot in this world and one foot in the dimension of energy and patterns and constantly morphing creatures of fractal, electric design. All while being healed and connected to the Earth and humanity. My experience is not as extensive as yours. I have tripped on dried cubensis mushrooms somewhere in the number of 40 to 50 times. Cactus somewhere now in the 30's of times. LSD 6 times. And few lesser ones like HBWR and lower doses of Salvia. But cactus has always stood out as the deepest, most immersive, and most healing.

So it is fascinating for me to hear about your experiences with THH and sublingual DMT. Thank you for sharing your findings with us.

If you are ever able to, I would highly encourage you to grow cacti. Many people grow them in containers and bring them indoors in the winter. Many of us who grow them can attest that they are beautiful plants, and have a unique "character" or "personality" all their own. And when you grow and make your own tea, then you can really begin to hone in on the powerful specimens and cultivate the ones that are most rewarding to grow.

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge. I will continue to follow this thread to see what other nuggets you and others share.

That sucks. I've had a few of those before, especially with the PC San Pedro. Yeah, it can be really dissappointing when that happens. I'm a big fan of Bridgesii as well. I almost always include some Bridgesii in the tea. Even if the tea is 1/2 or 1/3 Bridgesii by weight and the rest Pachanoi, the Bridgesii character is there and it adds a significant boost to the potency of the tea. But there are some powerful Pachanoi out there too and I have a lot of respect for them. But a pure Bridgesii tea always has a strong kick everytime for me. Good thing you had a backup plan.

quote from AVA69..

Now once you have your harmaline freebase...

1) place 10.5 grams of harmaline in a 1 liter pyrex cup style glass
2) add 900ml vinegar
3) add 40g zinc dust (from pyrotechnic places) in the pyrex glass too, use 40g zinc dust per each 10.5 grams of harmaline. You will see tiny hydrogen bubbles rise to the surface.
5) place beaker solution on a magnetic stirrer with stir rod and spin entire solution slowly
6) spin for 1.5 hour, the solution will turn from green to a transparent like color after 1.5 hour, use end of cotton q tip to place in solution and dab on paper plate in front of blacklight, it will now glow blue when transition is done...

7) once done with spin, let the solution sit for 1 hour, most (95%) of the zinc dust will settle to bottom, then filter solution over a #101 9cm filter disc fitted to a vacuum flask with vacuum trap in series with your vacuum pump, this will give you a transparent golden color liquid, use this solution for next step.

Throw away the zinc dust you just collected on filter disc (be careful, don't throw zinc on top aluminum foil in garbage or it will smoke due to hydrogen loaded zinc, best to put used zinc in a baggie with water to keep it moist, keep away from aluminum).

The pump/vacuum filter flask & filter disc will remove 100% of any zinc dust. so in other words, filter pyrex beaker solution (takes out the zinc dust) over a #101 9cm filter disc fitted inside a vacuum filtration flask hooked up to a vacuum pump, with a small vacuum trap in series, in-between the filtration flask and the pump. A good pump is JB platinum DV-142N 5 CFM heavy duty vacuum pump.

Cool you are left with a 100% clear transparent with just a touch of golden very light yellow color with no zinc dust at all...now add (80ml of 10% janitorial ammonia per 2g of harmaline)...so this means add 400ml of the 10% ammonia to your solution...you will immediately see the thh crash out of solution as a white powder, place mason jar in fridge for 3 hours, the crystals will all be seen at bottom of mason jar.

9) you will collect 7.5 grams of pure white THH freebase on the filter disc sitting in your vacuum filtration flask once you pour fridge cold solution over a #101 9cm filter disc in your vacuumm pump, rinse THH with some cold water. put filter disc of thh in a pyrex tray, scrape off and dry under fan...pure white.

10) always this will happen: exactly 75% is the yield, as I don't know why this is so...but it's a great yield still. Even in TIHKAL, the yield was similar, right at 75% as well.

11) I should note that the zinc/vinegar method can be done without a vacuum pump using just coffee filters, decantation of top portion of solutions, leaving zinc behind at bottom after spun solution sits several hours, filtering top solution only above the zinc thru a coffee filter, filtering off only the THH crystals that fall to the bottom of mason jar in the fridge after sitting a couple hours, and decanting off the top layer, etc. All the fancy equipment just makes it go faster.

p.s. I also saw an episode of "Ancient Aliens" in which they discovered remnants of zinc dust inside one of the chambers, and they believe the Egyptians were making hydrogen gas using zinc and vinegar, speculating that the great pyramid was some sort of power generating device.

12) This THH at 300mg is extremely visual, it's an isomer of a hormone like substance made in the brain naturally. With eyes closed for 2 hours are seen endless slow and high motion movies of nature, architecture, culture, history, the future, way beyond LSD or mescaline visuals...very realistic, mind-blowing...and with open eyes, beauty is extreme (over the top) and there is spiritual joy....this is the best psychedelic secret kept under wraps...because hardly anyone has used it over 200mg.

Combine 250mg THH orally with sublingual 60mg of DMT complexed to 470mg | High Pobability of Braindamage by Creepy non tested Drugs (forced by scammer 69ron) |, add 10 drops boiling water, mash on a spoon for 2 minutes, pour under tongue and hold for 15 minutes...10 minutes in you will experience profound beauty with open eyes, heavy CEV visions of spinning geometrics, actual temples, and ancient architecture, neverending breathtaking immaculate visions...pupils very dilated, music sounds incredible. 90 minutes long. 300mg THH is where the visions really are seen well, if you are not used to it, there is some slight dizziness at this dosage for a short period of time, but none at 250mg. The DMT really adds to the visions as well & brightens/colorizes them, incredible combination, just like in Ayahuasca.

Pic: One way to make tetrahydroharmine




AVA69...just a few questions...

Why use the more unstable possibly explosive.. [zinc dust]. ..instead of the more stable ..

[zinc powder?]....[or will booth types of zinc ...[powder..or..dust]?....work equally well?


I dont have..a ...[filter disc setup].. you speak of...can i use a funnel and filter with cotton balls to remove enough zinc to make it safe for consumption?

[you mention useing coffie filters/?]]

On video [professor8] says... coffie filters should not be used..because the zinc is too fine... [filter with cotton balls instead?


I dont have a magnetic stirer... .... what method can substitute magnetic stirrer? ..

just by hand?


can the process you speak of above...be done to the ....liftmode THH... i and others have?]

[the stuff glows mostly yellow with green tint..]


i am very concerned about filtering out the zinc..from product!

AVA69..

[quote]I dont have..a ...[filter disc setup].. you speak of...can i use a funnel and filter with cotton balls to remove enough zinc to make it safe for consumption?




Again i ask... after letting most of the zinc settel to bottom ...can i filter with cotton balls in funnel? as... [professer8] ...sugested using cotton balls instead of coffie filters?


how much does a disc filter setup similar to yours cost at lowest posible price ?

and what is the filter set up you have called?

dear AVA69..
I know about the mixing for 1.5hours..and chemicles involved...


Is this basicly the way its done [in video below] to filter out the zinc?


Also what fineness of filter would you choose to filter out the zinc/?


in this video...is the white powder what was filtered out?




Can i use a manuel hand pump vacume set up?


https://youtu.be/L3TNoevl60Q

[is it posible to use a simpler [cheaper]..gravity filtration method with the right filter discs?]


https://youtu.be/-De2VCoLEcc

I think the gravity filtration although slower is simple and cheaper route...what do think?


what size of filtration disc should i use? gravity filter?...pressure filter/...vacume filters/

Im guessing ..gravity filters.. if i use the simple gravity method... but how fine of filtration paper discs for zinc dust/?



just found a decent video on converting harmalas to THH below...

[just copy all words below and paste on google search]....it will take you to video...


[copy and paste all words below ..and put on google search]...


How to Reduce Harmaline to Tetrahydroharmine - Patreonhttps://www.patreon.com › how-to-reduce-to-47186323
Feb 5, 2021 — How to Reduce Harmaline to Tetrahydroharmine (Make your own THH) ... Harmalas are legal in the U.S. I trust this seller, quality product at ..

Thanks for sharing

ava69 I was intrigued by your posts about | High Pobability of Braindamage by Creepy non tested Drugs (forced by scammer 69ron) |+DMT for sublingual administration, and initially excited about the idea, however in doing more research, it seems quite well documented that | High Pobability of Braindamage by Creepy non tested Drugs (forced by scammer 69ron) | is in fact toxic to humans (as well as rodents). It's an oddly specific and narrow toxicity, it kills cochlear hairs causing hearing damage.

See: Cyclodextrins and Iatrogenic Hearing Loss: New Drugs with Significant Risk.

"use of HPβCD has been linked to significant hearing loss in several species, including humans. Evidence in mice supports a rapid onset of hearing loss that is dose-dependent. Ototoxicity can occur following central or peripheral drug delivery, with either route resulting in the preferential loss of cochlear outer hair cells (OHCs) within hours of dosing. Inner hair cells and spiral ganglion cells are spared at doses that cause ~85% OHC loss; additionally, no other major organ systems appear adversely affected. Evidence from a first-to-human phase 1 clinical trial mirrors animal studies to a large extent, indicating rapid onset and involvement of OHCs. All patients in the trial experienced some permanent hearing loss, although a temporary loss of function can be observed acutely following drug delivery. The long-term impact of HPβCD use as a maintenance drug, and the mechanism(s) of ototoxicity, are unknown."


There are even some reports of hearing damage in the reviews of the HPβCD products sold on Amazon (despite said products being described as "non-toxic" ). This is potentially extremely important information for people to know before using HPβCD. Many doctors will test your hearing at an annual physical, it would be nice if you had your hearing tested and report back the results.

Reference:
Crumling MA, King KA, Duncan RK. Cyclodextrins and Iatrogenic Hearing Loss: New Drugs with Significant Risk. Front Cell Neurosci. 2017 Nov 8;11:355. doi: 10.3389/fncel.2017.00355. PMID: 29163061; PMCID: PMC5676048.

Hearing loss issue is also mentioned by a doctor here: https://youtu.be/_NbtT8c9sv8 and there are numerous references to this problem that come up in a google search.

Ok so:

1) we can administer the harmala at the same time as the complexed dmt
2) we dont need to complex the harmala
3) freebase harmala works just as good as harmala salt

Correct?

Sounds good


Thanks. I just finished a big re-edit this week, improving and updating most of the contents.

I added your method to 'Other routes', see chapter 8.2:
https://www.dmt-nexus.me...&m=447389#post447389
Let me know if you have any feedback.

Just reviewing post #23:
Another possibility is to filter the solution using a cotton wool plug and then add a bit more acid. This should dissolve the tiny amounts of zinc particles that make it through the filter plug.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge ava69!

I have but one small favor to ask. Could you post a new thread in the 'DMT Allies extraction' and clearly explain (step by step) how to create THH from Harmala extract? I noticed that you have explained how to do so throughout | High Pobability of Braindamage by Creepy non tested Drugs (forced by scammer 69ron) | DMT part 1 and 2, but it's buried a lot of other information. A new post focused on the tek only (not the effects) would be great. Simply copy pasting everything you have written about it here should do the job.

This way people can ask tek specific questions and others can read back for easy reference.